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The description can be viewed in a slightly different manner.

Kashyapa is a person whose job is to regenerate Earth and then populate it. So we will find different wives and different progenies including dogs (Sarameya from Sarama), River (Iravati) and so on mentioned at different times.

Consider the "Snake" described here as Naga people. The thousand "snakes" are just small but powerful groups of Naga, or may be their kingdom.

Same way, the Garuda and Arun are not birds but kingdoms.

Same way, Kadru and Vinata etc. are metaphors…not necessarily a human being.

There is another story about Indra and Vayu. Vayu's mother was asked to keep vigil while Vayu was in womb. Somehow she fell asleep. Indra went inside the womb and cut the embryo in 49 pieces. It can be realized as a Kingdom in making….jealous Indra divided the people in 49 pieces !

The basic thing is, in most places metaphors are being used to make it easy for people to remember. These Itihasa and Purana were for common people. Veda and Upanishads were for learned people. There metaphors are less, but sometimes more cryptic.

Without understanding metaphors (which, frankly speaking, most of us do not understand), literal study of any epic will create confusion. It is like a English Professor reading a physics book on Quantum mechanics !

regards

The mahabharat is not from 5500 BC. According to puranas and other vedic scriptures it is from around 3000 BC . Mahabharat took place (from now) around 5000 years back.
After mahabharat many changes took place on earth.
The mleccha's are the descendants of Adam and Eve (beginning of the white Race) . This whole story you can find in the Bhavisya Purana.
Many Aryans after mahabharat came to Western Countries (europe) . A lot of Aryans later went back to India again. From here AIT theory. When they left India to Europe they brought the vedic knowledge with them and when they went back to India they again took it with them to India. Here in the west they only tell you the story when the Aryans went back from europe to India. They don't tell you that originaly they came from India with their vedic culture and after some time they went back.
The Aryans that didn't go , they mixed themselves with the mlecchas. You can see this in people in some country of Europe. Like turkish people , some of them look exactly like Indians with black hair and brown skin, some of them looks like white european people and some are between these two. The same also with Italians , Spanish , etc.

If you want to know the truth , the best is to follow the puranas and also look what is in reality . Both should match. In the Puranas, Mahabharata and other Vedic Scriptures every thing is written accurate. That is why Krishna in his Literaire incarnation as Vyasadeva he wrote all the Scriptures 5000 years back for the people of Kali Yuga. Because he knew that in Kali Yuga will be too much confusion , wrong interpretation end EGO.

I have a question.

I have read in the Srimad Bhagwatam about the pleanetary system, About Rasatal, palataal, talataal etc.. Now i am reading about this same but different. You are explaining about these names on the earth. Like mahatala is north america , rasatala is Australia. I know from the Srimad Bhagwatam that these are the lower planetary groups.
Can you explain me how you exactly came to the knowledge that lower planetary names you can use it also for the earth?

Sunil

sunil by Sunil KhusialSunil Khusial, 03 Apr 2015 22:28

Thank you for the tremendous amount of effort in presenting such valuable material.

Please can you provide the original Sanskrit word used in Mahabharata for the following:

1] pork 2] venison 3] wine 4] arm-pit slapping

I have not come across a verse by verse translation [Devanagiri-English]

Many thanks

sanskrit words by kalsunkalsun, 22 Jan 2015 23:45

Dear Jijith,

You are doing a great job analysing the ancient Vedic and Hindu scriptures. Thank you for all your dedicated work!

I'm also doing some research and would be delighted to hear your comment on the following questions.

1) ARYAS VS. MATSYAS MLECCHAS YAVANAS AND VAISYAS.
You mentioned in one of your essays that the Kurus were cultivating brahminical and ksatriya castes and had little sympathy for the trading and fishing communities surrounding their territories. The
arya brahmins dispise also the mlecchas and yavanas (Turks and Greeks) until today.

The reason for their disdain may be that the noble aryas disqualify them for their habit of meateating. Arya is about morality in life and spiritual advancement independent of bodily features, isn't it?

2) OUT OF AFRICA THEORY ABANDONED
The Out of Africa theory is no longer supported by intelligent scientists, except the mainstream, which turns the theory doubtfull anyhow. There have been two great scholars who maintain that the
arya nobility migrated from the North Pole.

One mystic is Lokamanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak, the inspirator of Nehru and Gandhi, who analysed the Rg Veda in jail during British rule. In the vedik rituals he found proof of the Arctic home of the Vedas. They worshipped the dawn of the new sun (after half year of darkness) and celestial bodies at the intervals of natural seasons existent only on the North Pole. At that time that place consisted of a land mass with a subtropical climate and lush greens. So, the oral tradition of Rg Veda must be prediluvial at least 10,500 years ago. Gangadhar Tilak, 'The Arctic Home in the Vedas' 1903 - (guests and low-karma users are not allowed to post links)

The other mystic was Manly Palmer Hall explaining that scientient life entered earth on the North Pole in subtle bodies that were not physical yet. Every living being and all biological cells in nature are constructed with a north and a south pole. Even an egg has a north and a south pole beaming different electromagnetic charges. Therefore, entrance onto the earth was possible only due to the magnetic fields on the Arctic. Hall says, the arya community existed on earth at least one million years ago (guests and low-karma users are not allowed to post links) The archaeological artifacts discussed by Michael Cremo in his books and videos support Hall's theory empirically.

3) CALCULATION OF THE YUGAS
There is confusion about the duration of the yugas mentioned in the Puranas. Svami Sri Yukteshvara Giri from the Himalayas, the disciple of Haidakhan Baba and teacher of Yogananda, published a small
book entitled 'The Holy Science', in the Introduction of which he shows the correct durations of the four yugas. Reason for the miscalculation of the brahmins was, that after the War of Kuruksetra, Yuddhisthira left for the Himalayas and took with him the best of his astrologers and scientists. Those who were left behind on the subcontinent didn't possess enough knowledge to calculate the complex astrological systems in the galaxy. The result was that they inflated each yuga with a factor of 100.

The Puranas tell us that Kali-yuga will last for 432,000 years. In reality, it will last only 4,500 years. Kali-yuga began at the end of Kurukshetra War and had its darkest period around 500 BC. The
dark age ended around 1500 AD. So according to the calculation by the yogis in the Himalayas, where the correct knowledge still exists, we are 500 years in Dvapara-yuga now.

4) THE VEDAS WERE LOOTED FROM THE TAMILS
The Tamils however will say that the Aryan deities - Vishnu, Shiva, Brahma - were 'looted' from the Tamils. The Persian 'immigrants' Sanskritised ancient Tamil knowledge and modified their scriptures
according to taste. The man who's doing the research of Tamil and Aryan history says, "The Deities are Tamil, the stories are Aryan". Their original mystic system was called 'Aaseevaham'.

The knowledge of the Four Vedas was given by Shiva at the First Sangam 10-20,000 years ago. Shiva contracted four disciples (the Four Kumaras, his 'brothers') to hear and remember his teachings. The researcher shows that Shiva was from the Paleolithic era, Murugan Mesolithic and Vishnu Neolithic. All these 'deities' were human beings who later became deified in temples of worship for the common man. Vishnu was a keen astronomer who went to Meso-America to teach the Mayas. The Mayan Calendar was taught by Vishnu. Shiva started the first Sangam and introduced written language in images for the first time. Two Sangams followed in later times from which the Tamil language was generated. 'The Ancient Culture of Tamils' (playlist) (guests and low-karma users are not allowed to post links)

What are your thoughts on these subjects, please, Jijith?

Namasté
Iris

Four questions by Iris GoosenIris Goosen, 19 Oct 2014 18:43

Bharat Charitra pariksha tells about the base of Mahabharat. The event of the Samhita period is reshaped in Mahabharat and with the inserting of Geeta inthis epic , it reached to the present position. Ganapati muni clearly showed the event of this Samhita period (War between KUTSA and Shushna) . Arjuna,s name is also KUTSA. Shushna of Samhita period is considered as KARNA in Mahabharat. Shushna is another name of Karna.

it is strange matter that , in Samhita period Arjuna is the other name of Kutsa and Karna was the another name of Shushna.

Bharat Charitra Pariksha written by Vasistha ganapati Muni and presented in Valter(Andhra Pradesh )

I am translating this book into Kannada (Dravidian language) Vol No1 and Vol 2.
Vol No 1 is available.

This is for your information

Puttu Kulkarni
HEGDE-KUMTA- 581330
India
=91 9448774920

Magadh should read Magadha
"here is some" should read "here are some" :-)

To Jijith Nadumuri,
Greetings from Australia,
I just read your page about the journey from Indraprastha To Magadh by Arjuna and companions…
This history in my opinion is very nicely presented and well written

I saw a blog comment where you asked for spelling correction…
the word 'lied' is used incorrectly, so here is some minor corrections as you asked :-)

eg
,,,thus included territories that lied lay to the south of Kuru-Panchala (or 'were positioned' to the south)
…included the kingdoms that lied in the southern banks of Ganga-Yamuna (or 'were situated on' the southern…
…The route that lied went to the immediate south of [the] Himalayan mountains, was another Uttarapatha route leading to Pragjyotisha, passing through the Kirata territories
…The populated regions of the Kuru kingdom <…> lied lay between Ganga and Yamuna
…the immediate region where it lied lay was considered as part of Kuru country (or 'was situated')
…passed through Kuru-jangala that lied lay to the north (or 'was situated')
…Kalakuta lied lay in the territories controlled by the Kurus (or 'was situated')
…that lied lay on the banks of Sarayu with Ayodhya
etc

Sorry , but according to Srimad Bhagavatam 8.24.13 it could not be a "separate tribe of people", because Manu Vaivasvata, the founder of the vedic society, is called a "king of the dravidians". So dravidian people cannot be separated from vedic people.

I forgot (but I think it would not be necessary to be mentioned for you): This also contradicts the AIT fundamentaly.

In terms of the AIT I agree with you, but I don't believe the so called "aryan people" to be indegenous to India, because according to the Puranas Manu Vaivasvata came to the Himalaya by ship. I think (and I got good reasons for that) the "aryan people" came from Kumari Kandam erroniously identified with the never existant Lemuria but in fact identical with Sundaland as can be seen with Google Earth very clearly because this area is within the range of the sea level rising after the last ice age.

Re: dravidan by Peter NowakPeter Nowak, 12 Aug 2014 14:11

aryan invasion theory was invented by the british.i can prove it in a single line.because according to europians the aryan invasion was done at 3500bc.but the greatest epics of the world mahabharatha occured 5500 B.C.this can be proved by the astronomical dates that are provided in mahabaratha.the europians think we hindus were dump to belive their false theory.but the real dumo were them.because they cannot lie even properly.they cannot even create single false proof originally.it had lots of loop holes in it .foolish dumpsters.
another example
according to euroipans alexander the great had largest heavily trained army.he could not even cross the sindhu river .our king ambhi helped alexander to cross the sindhu river my making elephant bridge. is here comes the truth
**according to europians aryans were horse nomads.they travel from place to place.

HERE COMES MY QUESTION
the sindu very river when comparing to saraswathi river that was running during mahabharatha period.
1. How could horse nomads cross such a big river and come to india??
2.how could they fight the dravidan(accoring to them)who knows their living places better than them?
3.how could the aryan defeat the dravidans who were heroic warriors?

ANSWERS
1.not even a mobilezed and well trained army like alexander could not even cross a river(sindhu) that was a branch river of saraswathi river.then how can the SO CALLED ARYANS CROSS THE SARASWATHI RIVER,SINDHU RIVER and invade india.the truth is they never invaded.but was invented
2.every one knows that the natives knows the places better than the new one.even a fool know it well
3.the horse nomads doesnot even have proper battle training .then how could they defeat the socalled dravidans .the mohedora,harapps sites shows the people living there were highly knowledeged ,modernized,skillful than any other people in the world.they should have a better army to fight the so calld invaders

aryan invasion theory by Pranesh BrisingrPranesh Brisingr, 10 Aug 2014 02:05

The dravidan you have mentioned is a seprate tribe of people.it is not the cholas,pandiyas,cheras are the keralas.because the cholas,pandiyas,kerlalas are seprately mentioned in mahabharata in their own names as cholas,pandiyas,keralas,cheras.for ex a pandiyan king fought for pandava army and opposed aswathaama during a fight in elephant.another pandiya king fought for kauravas and was killed by pandiyas.so the term dravidans does not mention cholas,pandiyas,keralas,etc.dravidan are another people.in 1912 only the term dravidan was introduced by foolish politicians (who says there is no hindu gods)the hindu culture is bad.they said aryan invasion theory is correct.but the aryan invasion theory was invented by british to divide and conqure our hindu people.becaus they were astonished by reading vedas.the british didnt read all the hinduism related books but only a few.maxmuller who translated vedas doesnt know sanskrit.he has not even come to india.but how did he translate it.it clearly shows the translations were crap.

dravidan by Pranesh BrisingrPranesh Brisingr, 10 Aug 2014 01:59

If you examine the Mahabharata carefully, you will find that it describes two very different Levels of Technology:
- On the one Hand a Society on the Level of the bronze Age with war elephants, horse driven chariots, conches for signals on the battlefield, bows and arrows, swords and so on as weapons. All of this is on the technological Level of the bronce Age and very ordinary Technology of that time.
- On the other Hand flying machines (vimanas), arrows with properties, which remind us on rocketry and weapons with efects, which seem very similar to atomic bombs..
As far as I know the Mahabharata, the Technology of the second described Level was Technology of the gods, given to their progeny or devotees. In my opinion this shows clearly, that these two Levels of Technology are not inventions but descriptions on a real Basis. This is very clear to see in the description of the Propulsion of a vimana (I'm not sure, this is in Mahabharata, maybe it was in Ramayana, but that doesn't matter in this purpose). Even the description is on a very high Level, because it needs a lot of experience, to give a description as short as possible but with all Information, needed to understand and reconstruct the object. I'm very sure, this was originally part of a technical description.
So from this Point of view it seems clear, that the technological descriptions are not imaginary but real achievments of the gods. In this Connection we have to see, that the Indian yuga System originates from the krita- or satyayuga, at which time the first Generation of gods, called "Jayas" or "Sons of Brahma" (this term also appears in the Bible as "Sons of God" and in other ancient scriptures) were "mind Born" by Brahma. From them in Tretayuga were begotten the daityas as the second Generation, from which came in Dvaparayuga the devas as the third Generation. This is the depiction of the Puranas but it is in accordance with the religious Believes of a lot of different peoples at different Locations, even different Continents. Apart from the fact, that the Indian yuga System no longer applies remains the fact, that this System pushes back the history of advanced human societies (which means the offspring of gods and former human races!) to more than 2 Million (2,.000.000) years. This is surely time enough, to develop an advanced Technology, if you compare the advancement of human Technology in the last say 500 years,.

Human or Alien Technology? by Peter NowakPeter Nowak, 04 Aug 2014 12:05

Dear Sir, I'm new at this forum and find it very enlightening. But let me tell you with all respect, that I don't believe in your "demystifying". The general reason for that is, that I got another understanding of myth, which is caused in my examination of the content of ancient myths, especially in Platons dialogs. Compare for example the Phaeton myth in Platons Timaios. There you can see, that myth is just a way of passing down real events of ancient times. The way, myth does it, is developed, to keep it better in mind. So to examine myth, you have to distinguish between the mythical form and the content, this form transports.

If we apply this on the myth of the chariot of the sun god Surya, it would show us, that the sun was not believed to be stationary but moving. This is because the solar system is part of a spiral arm of our galaxy. The galaxy is rotating, so the solar system as a whole is moving and there are other levels of movement too. The ancient indian people used the picture of the chariot, to point out this fact of the moving sun, while the ancient egyptian people showed the same fact by painting their gods situated in boats.

sun gods car by Peter NowakPeter Nowak, 04 Aug 2014 07:39

Hi to All,
I want entire world map during Mahabharat period

But the fact is , what we know is a lot different than what actually happened.

Those people were different than us, those times were different too, we don't need to assume something, everything written in scriptures is true. Kamsa killed 7 children before Krishna, ganga drowned those children's due to curse.

We at this modern age are still discovering things, and there is a lot to discover. Those people at dwapara and thretha yuga's were lot more advanced and they had strict rules and policies on how to live once life. We didn't knew that there was a nuclear explosion while Mahabharata war, until we got proof of that near kurukshethra, we are not even 1% technologically and spiritually competent to people of those times. they built ramasethu, they built dwarika on sea, they travelled on vimanas ..

What about Parushurama who trained karna, and bheeshma and dronacharya?

What about bheema meeting hanuman and asking for help in war…..?

parushurama was present while seetha swayamvaram and parushurama was still there while mahabharatha…..if you think ramayana happened in recent thretha yuga then you are wrong, vedas clearly mention that in 16th thretha yuga ramayana happened and in recent dwapara yuga mahabharatha happened.

Sir,
I am new to this site , but for me it is the best site for my likes,interests and curiosities.
Thanks for registering me as a member.
I have gone through the post. I had also given a post on Krishna in my profile of facebook, which contained some facts arising doubts about Krishna's historical existence. Please go through the contents below and give your expert comment. Thanks :-

आचार्य चतुरसेन शास्त्री की पुस्तक "वैदिक संस्कृति पर आसुरी प्रभाव " से कुछ उद्धरण - --- ( खंड XII )
-- कृष्ण कौन हैं---
(प्र० सं ०176 - 181 ) कृष्ण :
कृष्ण कौन हैं ,उनका कुल वंश ,जाति,देश, राज्य आज तक ठीक ठीक पता नहीं लग पाया है । साथ ही कंस के मथुरा राज्य का भी कोई ऐतिहासिक आधार प्राप्त नहीं है । कनिंघम ने जो मथुरा की खुदायी कराई थी , उसमें "कंस का टीला " नाम का विख्यात ढूह एक बौध विहार स्तूप प्रमाणित हुआ । पुराणों में मथुरा , इन्द्रप्रष्थ और हस्तिनापुर के तीन चक्रवर्ती राज्य वर्णित हैं । ……..इन्द्रप्रस्थ से हस्तिनापुर ६० मील और मथुरा ८० मील है । मथुरा से गोकुल और वृन्दावन ४-५ मील है ।ऐसी दशा में इन तीन प्रदेशों में तीन चक्रवर्ती महाराज्य कैसे ? और वे चक्रवर्ती भी कैसे ? " आसमुद्र क्षितीश " ?……कंस प्रेरित अक्रूर कृष्ण को गोकुल से मथुरा ले जाने को वायुवेगी (?) रथ पर चढ़कर मथुरा से चले तो प्रातः काल से चलकर संध्याकाळ में पहुंचे ?…….यह एक चमत्कारिक बात है की कृष्ण एक बार मथुरा आकर फिर गोकुल गए ही नहीं ? …… महाभारत से प्रतीत होता है की शिशुपाल ,दु:शासन आदि दस -दस सहस्री राजा हुए हैं ? पूर्वोक्त महाराज्यों की स्थापना स्पष्ट ही कोरी कल्पना प्रतीत होती है । इस बात का भी कोई ऐतिहासिक आधार प्राप्त नहीं है की कृष्ण पांडवों के समसामयिक थे ।महाभारत में ही एकमात्र उल्लेख है । फिर महाभारत में कंस और कौरवों का कोई सम्बन्ध नहीं दिखाया गया है

पौराणिक राजवंश और कृष्ण-यदुवंश की माथुर शाखा में , वैवश्वत मनु की पुत्री इला और पुरुवंश की संतानों मे ५२ वीं पीढ़ी में 'आहुक " नाम के एक राजा हुए हैं । उनके समसामयिक एक राजा देवमीढस कहीं थे ,जो पूर्वोक्त(यदुवंश की माथुर शाखा के ) वंश वृत्त के( ४६वीं पीढ़ी के) राजा वृष्णि से भिन्न किसी अन्य वृष्णि वंश के थे । उन्हीं के वंश में चौथी पीढ़ी में कंस का नाम है ।
शूरसेन जनपद:-मथुरा के चरों और का इलाका उन दिनों शूरसेन जनपद कहाता था ।{जिसमें पांच स्थल ,१२ वन, मथुरा और एक और पुर Kleisobra थे (टालमी का भारत-प्र १८ ) } {(यदुवंश ,माथुर शाखा की पूरी सूचि देखने पर वैवश्वत मनु से ५२ पीढ़ी में "अहूक" के पुत्र उग्रसेन ,उनके पुत्र कंस (५४वी पीढ़ी) तथा आहुक के दुसरे पुत्र देवक , पुत्री देवकी और उनके पुत्र कृष्ण का नाम आता है, जबकि ४४ वीं पीढ़ी में वृष्णि का नाम आता है , और वृष्णि की शाखा में कृष्ण ,कंस ,देवकी इत्यादि का नाम कहीं नहीं है ( देखिये पृष्ठ १७७ - १८0 ) } (प्र० सं ०180 - 181 ) राम के काल में ही शत्रुघ्न ने मथुरा के शासक लवणासुर को मारकर मथुरा पर अधिकार कर लिया था । बाद में भीम सात्वत ने शत्रुघ्न वंशियों से मथुरा छीन ली थी । भीम सात्वत ( यदुवंश , माथुर शाखा की ४३ वीं पीढ़ी ) राम से एक -दो पीढ़ी बाद के ही पुरुष हैं । तब से मथुरा पर सात्वत वंश का ही राज्य रहा । कंस उन्हीं के वंश का था ।…………. कृष्ण को गीता में वार्ष्णेय कहा गया है ।परन्तु आप देखते हैं कि यादवों के वृष्णि वंश में कृष्ण नहीं हैं । प्रधान सीतानाथ एक दुसरे वृष्णि वंश का पुश्तनामा देते हैं( जिसमें तीसरी पीढ़ी में वासुदेव और फिर उनके पुत्र कृष्ण कृष्ण का नाम देवमीढस पीढ़ी में आता है) किन्तु उनका कहना है की यह पूरा प्राप्त नहीं है ………अक्रूर का राज्य गुजरात में था ।…….पुराण कहीं कृष्ण के पिता का नाम वसुदेव और कहीं वासुदेव कहते हैं ।
(प्र० सं ०188-195 ) … पुरानों से प्रकट है की कृष्ण की बुआ कुंती पांडवों की माता थीं । परन्तु यहाँ हमें कुछ बातों पर विचार करना चाहिए । …कृष्ण पांडवों का सम्बन्ध केवल महाभारत में ही है । पांडवों का महत्त्व , पांडवों की विशेषताएं एकमात्र महाभारत में ही हैं , अन्यत्र कहीं नहीं ।ऐतिहासिक आधार सर्वप्रथम हम जन्मेजय और परीक्षित का पाते हैं ।……. वायु पुराण के अनुसार परीक्षित का जन्म महापद्म नन्द से १०५०वर्ष पूर्व हुआ ।महाभारत के समय वे गर्भ में थे । महाभारत उनका राज्यकाल ६० वर्ष बताता है और गद्दी पाने के समय वे ३६ वर्ष के थे । …… परीक्षित का नाम अथर्ववेद , ऐतरेय ब्रह्मण ,शतपथ ब्रह्मण और महाभारत में भी है ……..कृष्ण के मथुरा से द्वारिका चले जाने पर जरासंध ने मथुरा को अधिकृत कर लिया था । जब जरासंध की मृत्यु हो गयी तो मथुरा पर नागों ने अधिकार कर लिया था । भारत संग्राम में राज्य सब नष्ट -भ्रष्ट हो चुके थे ।अतः तक्ष शिला और मथुरा पर नागों ने अधिकार कर लिए तथा परीक्षित तक्षक नाग द्वारा मार डाले गए ।….प्रसिद्द है की जन्मेजय परीक्षित के पुत्र बहुत भारी सम्राट थे । ….. इन्होने नागों को हराकर तक्षशिला और मथुरा के राज्य नागों से छीन लिए थे तथा मथुरा पर कृष्ण के प्रपौत्र बज्रनाभ का अधिकार हो गया था । बज्रनाभ और जन्मेजय मित्र राज्य थे । …………ब्रह्मण ग्रन्थ जन्मेजय की प्रशंसा से भरे पड़े हैं ……….वाल्मीकि भी उन्हें प्राचीन भारी नरेश कहता है । शतपथ, पाणिनि और ऐतरेय उनकी राजधानी आसंदिवन बताता है । परन्तु महाभारत ,रामायण ,हस्तिनापुर बताते हैं । …….परन्तु यह बड़े आश्चर्य की बात है की जहां जन्मेजय और परीक्षित का ब्रह्मण ग्रंथों में इतनी धूम धाम से वर्णन है , वहां पांडवों का नाम ब्राह्मणों में क्यों नहीं आया । वहां पांडवों का कहीं भी नामो निशान नहीं है । पाजितर के अनुसार भारत युद्ध ९५० ई० पु० में हुआ और युद्ध के पश्चात ३६ वर्ष पांडवों ने राज्य करके महाप्रस्थान किया । इसके बाद ही परीक्षित रजा हुए । टूटे फूटे जो वर्णन हैं , वे बड़े विचित्र हैं । इसी से कुछ विद्वान् कहते हैं की पांडव कभी हुए ही नहीं । महाभारत संग्राम कुरु -संजयों का संग्राम है । इन दोनों वंशों के वैमनस्य का वर्णन शतपथ ब्रह्मण में है । पतंजलि नकुल सहदेव को कौरव कहते हैं ।…. इन्द्रप्रस्थ को कौरव्य कहा गया है ।… इस बात के भी प्रमाण हैं की यह परीक्षित और जन्मेजय , जिनका ब्रह्मण ग्रंथों में वर्णन है, पांडवों के उत्तराधिकारी नहीं हैं , पूर्व पुरुष हैं । ( महाभारत ही की आदि पर्व में दी गयी कुरु वंश की वंशावली में एक परीक्षित और दो जन्मेजय हैं किन्तु ये तीनों शांतनु महाभिश के पूर्व पुरुष हैं । ……….इन सब प्रमाणों से तो यह निश्चित होता है की ब्रह्मण ग्रंथों में वर्णित तथा पुराणों में भी वर्णित परीक्षित और जन्मेजय , सुभद्रा-अभिमन्यु पुत्र तथा महाभारत उत्तरकालीन पुरुष नहीं , महाभारत संग्राम से कोई १०० या इससे अधिक वर्ष पूर्व के पुरुष हैं । …..शांतनु के सम्बन्ध में फिर भी यास्कीय निरुक्त , वायु पुराण में, तथा मत्स्य में संकेत मिलते हैं परन्तु उससे आगे किसी कौरव , पांडव के नहीं । यदि महाभारत को प्रमाण न माना जाए तो पांडवों का कहीं कोई अस्तित्व प्रतीत ही नहीं होता अतः पांडवों की कृष्ण से मित्रता और फुफेरे भाई का रिश्ता एवं समसामयिकता में घोर संदेह है ।….{कुंती के भी विषय में महाभारत,वायु पुराण , मत्स्य पुराण — कुन्तिभोज और शूरसेन कि कड़ी मिलाने पर विश्लेषण करके यह पता चलता है कि कुंती कन्या तो वासुदेव के पिता शूर की थी लेकिन कुन्तिभोज (चेदी वंश के ) वासुदेव ने उसे गोद लिया था…..जो एक क्लिष्ट कल्पना प्रतीत होती है ) } महाभारत के अनुसार महाभारत काल में गंधार का राजा सुबल था । उसकी पुत्री गांधारी धृतराष्ट्र को ब्याही थी ।गांधारी का भाई शकुनी था ..इन सब नामों और रिश्तों का आधार भी एकमात्र महाभारत ही है । अन्यत्र हमें दुसरे आधार मिलते हैं । माहभारत काल में गांधार का रजा नग्नजित था ………नग्नजित का पुत्र सुबल को बताया गया है । नग्नजित की कन्या सत्यकृष्ण को ब्याही थी । यह विवाह यद्ध के द्वारा बलात हुआ था ।
(प्र० सं ०195-198 )ऋग्वेद और कृष्ण _ ऋग्वेद में कृष्ण से सम्बंधित हमें तीन ऋचाएं मिलती हैं , वे ये हैं —
अव द्रप्सो अंशुमती मतिष्ठिदियानाह कृष्णो दशभिः सहस्त्रैह‘।
आवतमिन्द्र : शच्या धमन्तमप स्तेहिती नृमणा अघंत ।।
द्रप्समपश्यम` विपुने चरन्त मुपह्वरे नद्यो अन्शुमत्या : ।
नभो न कृष्णमवत स्थिवांमिष्यामि यो वृषणो युध्यताजौ ।।
अघ द्रप्सो अन्शुमत्या उपस्थे$धार यत्तन्वम तित्विषाणः ।
विशो अदेवीरभ्या चरन्ती वृहस्पतिना युजेंद्र : ससाहे । ।
(ऋ ० ८/९६/१३-१५ )
इन ऋचाओं का सारांश यह है की शीघ्रगामी कृष्ण ने १० हजार सेना के साथ अंशुमती नदी के समीप छावनी डाली ।( चारों और महाकोलाहल से पूर्ण ) । ऋग्वेद में एक कथा और है जिसमें इस बात का उल्लेख है की अंशुमती तट पर कृष्ण को युद्ध में न जीत सकने के कारण इन्द्र ने कृष्ण के देश की कुछ स्त्रियों के गर्भ विदीर्ण कर डाले थे ।
उस काल में पंजाब और सिंध का संयुक्त नाम ’सप्त सिन्धु "था ।तथा उस पर वृत्र का अधिकार था । यह वृत्र असुर याजक भृगु के वंश का था तथा दासों का नेता था , जिनके गानों का सप्तसिंधु पर अधिकार था । इन्द्र ने जो देवरात था , तथा जिसकी राजधानी देवलोक (एलम ) थी , पञ्च सिन्धु पर चढ़ाई की थी । उन दिनों परसिया का पूर्वी और उत्तरी भाग एलम या इलावर्त कहाता था । इन्द्र ने यह अभियान संभवतः फारस की खाड़ी केकिनारे किनारे आ कर किया था ।तथा वह वर्तमानं कराची के आस पास सिंध में प्रविष्ट हुआ था । इसका स्पष्ट संकेत जातक अट्टकथा के इक्कीसवें जातक में एक गाथा में है । उसका अभिप्राय यह है की देवों और असुरों के दो अयोध्या नगर थे ।उनके बीच में इन्द्र ने उरंग , करोति, पयस्सहारी और मदन युत चार महंत रखे । ये दो अयोध्या नगर कौन से थे तथा उनके बीच में रक्षक ये विभिन्न जाती के चार दिगपाल कौन थे ? इस रहस्य का रूप तो तब स्पष्ट होगा जब मोहनजोदाड़ो और हरप्पा के अभिलेख पढ़े जा सकेंगे ।इस गाथा का इन्हीं नगरों से सम्बन्ध है, इस संदेह के बहुत से कारण हैं । कदाचित इन्द्र ने कलात की राह सिंध में प्रवेश किया और सिंध विजय कर वह कच्छ की और बढ़ा , जहां दृषद्वती के बीहड़ों में कृष्ण ने उसका अवरोध किया और इन्द्र को परास्त होकर पीछे लौटना पड़ा ।
ऋग्वेद के इस सन्दर्भ का समर्थन होता है श्री मद्भागवत से ।(अध्याय २४,२५ ) ……. इस बात के यथेष्ट प्रमाण हैं की इन्द्र ने सप्तसिंधु (सिंध) अधिकृत करके ही कृष्ण पर यह आक्रमण किया था । उसने इलाम (परसिया ) से आकर और दासों से विग्रह करके सिंध में अपना राज्य स्थापित किया था ।वह साहसी, पराक्रमी और खटपटी युवक अपनी मुठमर्दी से इलाम के देवों का नेता बन गया था।
--उसने पूर्व की और प्रसार किया और पञ्च सिन्धु के नेता वृत्र को मार डाला ।दासों के नेता दिवोदास तथा उसके पुत्र सुदा: त्रसदस्यु , एवं पुरु से उसने संधि कर तुर्वश और यदु दासों को मिलाकर अपना साम्राज्य सिंध में जमाया । ………..परन्तु कृष्ण ने इन्द्र की दाल नहीं गलने दी और जंगली प्रदेशों का आश्रय लेकर उसने अपने अनुयायियों की रक्षा की । ऐसी दशा में अवैदिक भारतियों में उसकी पूजा प्रचलित हो गयी । -- जिस कृष्ण की ऋग्वेद में प्रतिष्ठा है और जो प्रतापी इन्द्र का प्रतिद्वंदी है , वह किसी भाँती महाभारत युद्ध का नेता नहीं हो सकता । हाँ यदि महाभारत युद्ध ही कल्पित हो और ऋग्वेद में वर्णित दाशराज्ञ युद्ध को या कुरु -संजय युद्ध को महाभारत कल्पित किया गया हो तो कृष्ण का वहां उपस्थित होकर इन्द्र की स्पर्धा करना संभव हो सकता है । तब कंस का मथुरा महाराज्य तथा कृष्ण की गोकुल लीलाओं का कोई भी ऐतिहासिक आधार नहीं दीख पड़ता । …………
(प्र० सं ०198-204 ) विदेशों में कृष्ण :
-भारत से बाहर भी कृष्ण से सम्बंधित बहुत सी बातें हैं । कृष्ण की पूजा ग्रीस, रोम व मिश्र में अपोलो(Apolo) , कर्ण (Carna), या कान्ह नामों से होती है । हेरोदेट्स के सीथियन देव 'हरकुलस " और 'जेबेलाईज (Gebeleizes) ", बलदेव और गोपाल ही प्रतीत होते हैं । जेबेलाईज , गोपाल का और हर्कुलीज ,हरिकुलेश का अपभ्रंश प्रतीत होते हैं । ……….ईरान ही का एक इलाका -Media-Atropatene-Media,Magog या Media Agheana कहाता है ।…….इन प्रदेशों के निवासी "गोमाता " कहाते थे । अब हमें इस बात की कल्पना करने का आधार मिलता है की कृष्ण के इन्द्र से विग्रह होने के फलस्वरूप इन्हीं "गोमाता " लोगों की रक्षा कृष्ण ने इन्द्र से की है , क्योंकि वैदिक साहित्य में वर्णित इन्द्र का चरित्र एक धूर्त दुराचारी पुरुष के सामान प्रतीत होता है ।……………
कृष्ण की कुछ उपाधियाँ हैं — मुरारी, जगदाधार, मधुसुदन, केशव , गोविन्द , गोपाल , कुंजबिहारी , तथा वनमाली । अब इन नामों ही को विदेशी इतिहास की कसौटी पर कसिये
भागवत दशम स्कंध में नरकासुर और मुर के असुर को जीतकर इन्द्र की सहायता करने की कथा है ।….इन्द्र देव(Indabugash) एलiम (Elam) का राजा था ।……….वहीँ ,कलातनादारी के निकट पुराण वर्णित "अपवर्त "(बावर्द ) या (अबिवार्ड) दोज़ख देश है , जिसे पुरानों में नरक कहा गया है । ……….मुरु प्रदेश भी वहीँ एक बड़ा इलाका है जिसे अब "मर्गियाना " या 'मर्व्दस्त ' कहते हैं । इसी इलाके को छूता हुआ प्रदेश असुरों (खरो) का इश्त्खर है । इन इलाकों की सीमाएं परस्पर मिली हुयी हैं । यह स्वाभाविक था की मुरु के असुरों तथा नरकासुर एवं इश्त्खर के असुरों से इन्द्र का सीमा प्रदेशों से सम्बंधित विग्रह रहता हो । कृष्ण ने इन्द्र से संधि करने के बाद इन्द्र की सहायता कर इन्द्र के इन पडोसी असुरों का संहार किया हो और "मुरारी " उपाधि पाई हो i
ईरान में असुरों का एक राज्य असीरिया भी था । इस देश को "मधु" भी कहते थे । इसे विजय करके कृष्ण ने "मधुसुदन" नाम पाया हो । इसी असुर्वंश की एक शाखा सीरिया के असुर (Essur ) नगर में राज्य करती थी । सीरिया को ही "श्याम "(Shiam ) भी कहा है । कृष्ण ने संभवतः इस प्रदेश को जय करके "श्याम की उपाधि पाई हो । समरकंद के निकट एक देश "केश " है । यह देश विजय करके कृष्ण "केशव " कहाए हों । भागवत ( १० वां स्कंध ) में लिखा है की सत्यभामा के लिए कृष्ण इन्द्र को जीतकर कल्प वृक्ष नंदन वन से लाये थे तथा नंदनवन को अर्जुन ने दहा था ।यह महाभारत में संकेत है ।….. इन्द्र का यह नंदनवन ईरान का "पार्दिया " या "मीडिया " इलाका था ।इन इलाकों के निवासी 'नंदिनी गो " कहाते थे तथा "पार्दीय " नरेशों की उपाधि 'गोपाल " थी और वे "गदाधर (club bearers ) कहलाते थे । संभव है की ये गोपाल इन्द्र के सामंत हों । इन्हें विजय करके संभवतः कृष्ण ने 'गोपाल" "गदाधर " और "गोविन्द" ) की उपाधि पायी थी । कृष्ण को "कुञ्ज बिहारी " और "रसिक बिहारी " भी कहते हैं । "कुञ्ज " खुरासान का प्राचीन नाम है । इसी को "कुञ्ज रसिक " भी कहते हैं । इन प्रदेशों को विजय करने या यहाँ निवास करने से संभवतः कृष्ण की उपाधि "कुञ्ज बिहारी " या "रसिक बिहारी " पड़ी हो । कृष्ण का एक नाम वनमाली भी है । वन (Van) ईरान का महा प्राचीन नगर है । …………..यहीं अनिरुद्ध -उषा के विवाह सम्बन्धी युद्ध में कृष्ण व बलराम ने वाणासुर को पराजित किया था । तभी संभवतः उन्होंने "वनमाली "उपाधि पायी हो । ……..नृसिंह के बड़े भाई नृग को इन्द्र पद प्राप्त था । ये बड़े गोदानी थे \ अज्ञान से दान में दी हुयी गौ पुनः ब्राह्मण को दे देने से ये गिरगिट बनाकर द्वारिका के पास अंध कूप में दाल दिए गए ।जहां से कृष्ण ने उनका बाणासुर -युद्ध के अवसर पर उद्धार किया ।…….. कम्बोज गिरगिस (उत्तरी तुर्किस्तान में ) इलाके का नाम है और कृष्ण ने नरक और मुरु दैत्य राजाओं को जीतकर , न्रिग्वंशियों को इलाम -सुसियाना का अधिपति बनाया हो , जहाँ आज तक उनके वंशज रहते हैं । इन सारे प्रमाणों से हम कम से कम इस निष्कर्ष पर तो पहुंचाते ही हैं की कृष्ण का सम्बन्ध जितना फारस , तुर्किस्तान , कंधहयों से है , उतना भारत से नहीं , और कृष्णऋग्वेदकालीन इन्द्र के समसामयिक हैं , महाभारत काल के पुरुष नहीं ।
अब मिश्र के इतिहास की भी छानबीन होनी चाहिए ।हम देखते हैं की मिश्र के Kan और इन्द्रदीप (भारत ) के कान्ह में बहुत समता है । डियोडोरस और टाड कान को अपोलो का पर्याय मानते हैं i ( Apollo of Nile— Kan ,the Egyptian title of Apollo or The Sun-God ) | वे इसे वंशीवादक(Protector of Nine Musics ) भी मानते हैं । यदि आप ग्रीस के (Phythic Apollo) से काली मर्दन की घटना का मिलान करें तो बहुत समता पायेंगे ।Todd का तो यह भी मत है की ब्रिटनी के (Carnac ) में (Druid ) निर्मित जो Cetic (Apollo ) की मूर्ति है , वह कृष्ण ही की है । (Druid ) की बनायीं ऐसी ही कृष्ण की मूर्तियाँ सारे योरोप में थीं ।
प्रसिद्ध है की कृष्ण गुर्जर् प्रदेश में द्वारिका में जाकर रहे …….. 'गुर्ज " नाम गदा का है । ईरानी भाषा में इसे गोपाल कहते हैं । ईरान में जो पार्दिया प्रदेश है , वहां के पारद नरेश गदाधारी ( Club Bearers ) कहाते थे । दुसरे शब्दों में वे "गोपाल" भी उपनाम धारण करते थे । पार्दिया प्रदेश का नाम भी गुर्जर (Gurjar) था , जिसकी राजधानी टाक देश(Takka-Desa) थी ।………. इसी गुर्जर देश में कुशान प्रांत है । वहां के कुशनों की परंपरा संभवतः कृष्ण वन्ह से है अथवा कुशान कृष्ण वंशी ही हैं ।

by Kishore NigamKishore Nigam, 18 Feb 2014 15:53

The televised versions of Mahabharata all have deveated from the original story line in lot of places. In my openion they are not serius references to study Mahabharata. They take lot of liberties with the story line and introduce their own innovations. However, BR Chopra's serial was more true to the original story than the recent Star Plus version of Mahabharata produced by Swastik Pictures. But Star Plus Mahabharata is more visually appealing than BR Chopra's version.

Regarding the episode of humiliation of Duryodhana at Sabha, here is the chapter describing it:- http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-mbh-02:section-49. There is no mention of Draupadi calling Duryodhana blind. The story of Gandhari making Duryodhana iron-bodied using her vision too is not found in any main version of Mahabharata.


Re: Recent Thoughts by Jijith NadumuriJijith Nadumuri, 17 Jan 2014 08:51

Today it is very difficult to separate out the core 'Jaya' and the middle layer 'Bhaarata' and the outer layer 'Mahaabhaarata' from the whole corpus of the text. But there are certain information that can help us. The text mentions that 'Jaya' the work of Vyasa contains only 8,000 verses out of the 100,000 verses constituting Mahabharata as we know it. These verses of Jaya will not contain Vyasa as a 'character' within, as he is the author. Jaya is narrated by Sanjaya to Dhritarashtra. All of these conditions are satisfied in a portion of Mahabharata starting from Bhishma parva and ending in Sauptika Parva (book 6 to 10). These are the books dealing with Kurukshetra War- Bhishma, Drona, Karna, Shalya and Sauptika parvas. But the total number of verses in these 5 books adds to around 24,000 verses (23,847). This is because Vaisyampayana, the desciple of Vyasa has contributed verses to Vyasa's core Jaya when he recited it to Janamejaya, the great grandson of Arjuna. This second level expansion of Jaya is called 'Bhaarata' and it is recited by Vaishampayana. Thus roughly we can say:- the cores of book 6 to 10 in which Vyasa himself does not appear as a character is the real 'Jaya' of 8000 verses. The rest of the book 6 to 10 is part of Vaisampayana's expansion. This expanded text is called 'Bhaarata' having 24,000 verses (inclusive of the 8000 verses of Jaya). Portions of Mahabharata where Vaisampayana appears in third person is part of Sauti's expansion now called 'MahaaBhaarata'. There are verses in Mahabharata where even Sauti is mentioned in third person. This means the text expanded even after the life-time of Sauti. I do not now accept any absolute chronology of when each expansion took place and so I am non commital about the Gupta period being the time when the text took its current shape.

Creating a Mahabharata text after rejecting what is percieved as later addition will not be a good idea as all these later additions too have information value. It will be a futile excersise like what happened with Bible. A lot of valuable information generated during the formative period of Bible was lost due to such mindless editing and monopolistic views. Traditions which does not fall in line with the majoritarian view were declared herasies. A similar futile exerciese is already done for Mahabharata with the so called 'critical edition of Mahabharata'. Many scholars do not accept the criteria chosen to declare one verse as original and another as later addition.

Regarding your question on the glorification of death (and birth) of war heroes on the side of Kauravas (as well as those on the side of the Pandavas):- Many scholars think in this way. Mahabharata text passed through the hands of many people sympathetic to both the sides and a neutral compiler has added all of these versions into the main corpus.


I agree with your comments generally but no verse in Mahabharata can be ignored even if it is part of a myth. This is because every verse of this text represent a time and a piece of encoded information in our ancient past about which we do not have any other history or any other source of knowledge. We can however set aside certain verses to focus on the verses which have greater historical sense but need to analyse even mythological verses to extract philosophical and cultural elements from those myths. Many myths in Mahabharata appear as abusrd and do not have any historical sense. This is because those myths are not embedding any historical information BUT they are embedding astronomical, geological and sometimes mathematical information. For example Mahabharata mentions that Vasista tried to commit suicide by jumping into Sarasvati and the river then broke into hundred pieces forming the river Sata-dru (Satluj:- Sata-dru means 'with hundred branches'). The poet who contributed this myth to Mahabharata has actually embedded the 'geological information' about the Western drainage system of India. Due to tectonic activity, river Sarasvati migrated from east to west and then from west to east forming many channels and one of them became Satluj river which joined with Indus (Sindhu). Satluj event today has many branches. Similarly Balarama's wife Rohini is mentioned as spending some time in the abode of Brahma and that time turned out to be 1000 years on Earth! This encodes astronomical information regarding the precession of equinox which takes close to 1000 years to move from one star to another in our sky. Rohini is the name of a star and Brahma-sira is the name of a stellar constallation.

Some other verses like the one you mentioned about Bhima having strength of 10000 elephants etc are pure exagerations or the liberty of the poet.


History in Mahabharata by Jijith NadumuriJijith Nadumuri, 17 Jan 2014 04:59

Dear Jiith,

As we know the original Mahabharata compiled by Vyasa was "Jaya". Over the years many stories were added in the original book of Vyasa and it took its present form during Gupta period. There are many interpolations in Mahabharata, many myths have been added in this epic. You have done a lot of research on Mahabharata. Why don't you try to find out the original story and write a new book that is free of all these myths and interpolations ?

Do you think that the death of all the prominent warriors of Mahabharata have been dramatized by some later authors ? All of them turned into invincible warriors just before their death. I think Shikhandi and Dristidyumna killed Bhishma and Drona respectively in a fair battle and the stories of Bhishma not attacking Shikhandi and Drona's celestial weapons not appearing before his death were added later to cover up their failure. Bhishma and Drona were famed warriors but the impact of the old age on them was evident. They couldn't kill any prominent warrior. What you have to say on this ?

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