Recent Thoughts
In this thread i plan to write about recent thoughts; subjects will be random; it will be like a blog; some of them may later develop into separate articles
Recent Thoughts
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In this thread i plan to write about recent thoughts; subjects will be random; it will be like a blog; some of them may later develop into separate articles
There are certain narrations in Mahabharata, that defies any rational explanations. Some examples are explanations about flying vehicles (Vimanas), Arjuna's travels in a flying chariot across the Himalayas, his visit of the Deva territories (ancient alien base-camp in Tibet?), his battle with the Nivata Kavachas (men in space-suits?), Salwa's attack of the city of Dwaraka in a flying city named Saubha, the triple space-cities of Asuras that revolved around Earth in three circular orbits that was destroyed by Siva using a single projectile weapon, the flying craft of Uparichara Vasu, the Puspaka-Vimana used by Kuvera, Ravana, Vibhishana and Rama, the narration of the birth of Kauravas from the cells of an embryo outside the womb of a women, the narrations about celestial weapons that unleash high energy in the form of fire (explosions), water (rain), air (storm), the narration about the after effects of such weapons suggestive of the use of a nuclear weapon (nails falling down, regions turning into deserts, death of embryos even in womb), the idea that these weapons are invoked by mantras (voice enabled weapons?) and many more.
What is the explanation that can be given to these strange narrations? Can we say that the ancient authors of Mahabharata imagined all these? In that case, these are the best science-fiction stories that we have as part of our ancient heritage. Not only the best but some of the ancient science fiction stories.
But there is a problem if we dismiss all these as science-fiction stories written by Vyasa, his disciples and their predecessors. Look at the modern science-fiction stories. They are not just pure imaginations without any basis. They are based on some existing technology or scientific understanding. Of course in some cases certain science-fiction stories had acted as inspiration for a technology invented later. But in most of cases, science-fiction is based on existing scientific understanding and existing technologies.
This would mean that there was some high technology and scientific understanding in ancient India during the period when Mahabharata was being authored. This is a very interesting and very important thought. If this is proved right, the notion of our generation that, we are now at the apex of scientific and technological understanding will fall apart! It would mean that technology far superior than what we see today existed in the past. It would mean that human civilization had experienced technological and scientific advancement in the past. It would mean that the graph of human technology was not exponential in nature but a sine wave!
An exponential graph will mean that we or the human society was technologically backward in the past and now is technologically advancing faster and faster as we progress into the future. This is the picture most people agree with. A sine wave graph would mean that we had peaks of technological advancements in the past, from where we fell down to technologically backward states in the past and again progressed to technologically advanced states, in repeating cycles. After several peaks and troughs now it seems we are marching towards another peak. It also mean that we can again fall down to a trough!
Now a basic questions that arise is, were these technologically advanced states in ancient periods, such as during the period of Mahabharata, the result of human effort alone?
These thoughts are now expanded into an article:-
Alien Presence during Mahabharata
The articles on alien presence during Mahabharata, is now complete, I had also worked on the sub-topics related to this topic, such as the references of flying-vehicles in Mahabharata, the references of space-cities in Mahabharata, the references of high energy weapons in Mahabharata, the references of human birth in artificial environments in Mahabharata. These will be added to the site shortly.
A series of articles on the-fourteen-worlds is created. It is a natural extension of the article on alien presence in the Mahabharata.
Recently a friend of mine asked me why I am not analyzing ancient Indian texts other than Mahabharata, like the Vedas, the Ramayana and the Puranas. My answer was if only I could!. It has been around 20 years that I am interacting with Mahabharata. It is not that I have not read other texts. I have read Ramayana around 3 or 4 times, has read Bhagavata Purana, Vishnu Purana, many Upanishads and parts of Rig Veda, Yajur Veda and Atharva Veda. However the sheer size of Mahabharata will imprison you for the whole life-time to be tied with it. Mahabharata is larger than all the four Vedas and Ramayana put together. With 84,000 plus verses (if we add the appendix Harivamhsa of 16,000 verses, then it is 100,000 verses), Mahabharata is the largest text created by ancient Indians. Only Padma Purana comes close with 55,000 verses. Ramayana is only 18,000 to 24,000 verses depending on the version. The largest among the four Vedas, viz. Rig Veda is only 10,500 verses. Atharva Veda is 6000 verses. Yajur Veda is around 2000 verses, so is Sama Veda. Atharva Veda, Yajur Veda and Sama Veda contains Rig Vedic verses within it. Thus 20% of Atharva Veda, 25% of Yajur Veda and 90% of Sama Veda is Rig Veda. Yajur Veda also contains some verses (5%) from Atharva Veda. Thus excluding overlaps, the four Vedas constitute around 20,000 verses. If we consider overlaps, then the four Vedas constitute around 17,000 verses. Thus if we add the four Vedas and Ramayana it will be around 35,000 to 44,000 verses, only half the size of Mahabharata having 84,000 verses. This in no way indicate that Vedas or Ramayana is inferior to Mahabharata; only that Mahabharata is huge in size.
Interestingly all the Puranas put together out-perform Mahabharata. Adding up all the 18 Maha-Puranas (great Puranas) like Padma Purana, Vishnu Purana, Bhagavata Purana, Vayu Purana, Agni Purana, Bhavishya Purana etc we have around 300,000 verses. That is three times the size of Mahabharata (including Harivamhsa) of 100,000 verses! If we add all the numerous, Upa Puranas (minor Puranas) like Siva Purana, Kalika Purana etc we have around 400,000 to 500,000 verses. That is 4 to 5 times the size of Mahabharata!
Adding all the Vedas, Epics and Puranas thus we have around 550,000 verses. If we include the Upanishads, Aranyakas and Brahmanas, other Sanskrit works related to medicine (Ayurveda), archery (Dhanurveda), architecture etc and other literary works we have more than one or two million verses. That shows the brilliance of ancient Indians and the extent of Vedic-Sanskrit language. The fact that most of these are orally transmitted committing in memory is unbelievably true! I guess no other civilization and no other language has produced this much amount of information in its early days!
It may be because it was impossible to record this much amount of information using the recording media available in those days (like writing on stones, walls, statues and on palm leaves) that our forefathers choose to commit all these into memory and transmitted all these orally. Human brains were the only recording media available in those days to store this voluminous information.
Another corollary inference that can be derived from this is that it is impossible to create this much amount of information in a short span of time like 1400 BC to 400 AD as described by AIT / AMT theories. All of this points to the fact that the ancient Indians were the oldest civilization of the world, who chose to express their thoughts in their favorite language in the form of four Vedas with its Brahmanas, Aranyakas and Upanishads, the two epics, several Puranas and several sciences including astronomy, cosmology, geography, history, mathematics (geometry, trigonometry, algebra, decimal numerals), biology (germ theory, evolution), medicine (including surgery), grammar, phonetic, poetic-meter, etymology, law, botany, animal husbandry, metallurgy, building construction, military science (archery, firearms, military formations, chemical warfare), music and dance. This is possible only if they had continuity of their civilization for many thousands of years (probably from 15,000 BC onwards).
As per requests, I am creating an article on the comparison of ancient Indian texts. The four Vedas, the two epics, the 18 main Puranas and some minor Puranas are compared for their size in terms of number of verses contained in them:- Comparison of Ancient Indian Texts
Unfold
Comparison of Mahabharata with Vedas, Puranas and Ramayana by 
Jijith Nadumuri, 06 Jul 2010 18:47
AncientVoice won't be complete without an analysis of Ramayana. No researcher of ancient Indian history can ignore this great epic. Ramayana is more popular among the people compared to Mahabharata. Story of Rama and Sita and Rama's fight with Ravana is known to even small children, where as many grown up men won't be able to tell the name of the five Pandavas correctly. Rama, Lakshmana, Bharata (and Satrugna) are more popular than Yudhisthira, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadeva among the modern Indian society. Hanuman of Ramayana is more well known than Ghatotkacha of Mahabharata. Ravana is more famous than Duryodhana. Such is the popularity of this great epic called Ramayana.
Below is my first article on Ramayana at AncientVoice site:-
I have been working on one tough problem regarding ancient Indian history. It is the concept of Yugas. It is in the psyche of every Indian. We are believing in a system of time reckoning which is quite unique. We have four Yugas. Krita Yuga, Treta Yuga, Dwapara Yuga and Kali Yuga. We also have a strange notion that subsequent Yugas are worser than the former, a notion typical of a declining civilization which has no hope for the future. Another notion is that we are now living in Kali Yuga which will end only after at least 400 thousand more years (!), shattering any hope for the progressive Krita Yuga that is supposed to commence after that.
Apart from this, many historians across the world has since 18th century criticized the Yuga system considering it as fictitious with no historical value. In a series of articles on the Yugas I am exploring Mahabharata, and trying to make sense of this ancient system of time-reckoning. After analysis I am finding that the Yuga System is not that bad as we are made to believe by many historians.
Below are the articles that are now developed:-
- Emergence of the Yuga System (stabilized)
- Yuga Definitions in Mahabharata (stabilized)
- Yugas mapped to Common Era (stabilized)
- Events in Chatur Yuga 1 (stabilized)
- Events after Chatur Yuga 1 (stabilized)
An extension of this series of articles is now ready:- thousand-year-long-chatur-yuga. In this article the four Yugas mapped to a single millennium is described. It also explores the possible connections between the lives of Rama and Krishna and attempts the dating of Rama's life based on Kurukshetra-War. It also contains the dates arrived for several ancient figures including Mahabali and Daksha.
For some time I had embarked on a comparative study on Greek epics Iliad and Odyssey. Just like I consider Mahabharata and Ramayana as containing the pre-history of India, I consider Iliad and Odyssey too as containing the pre-history of the Greeks (and countries surrounding Greece) apart from all the mythological contents and imaginative / fictional works in them.
As I started studying, I found many family-names which are of Vedic origin. One of them is the tribe of Atri (sage-atri-gotra). Atri is one of the seven ancient sages (the Sapta-Rishis). The seven sages were the founder members of several human tribes. Members of Atri's family appear in Iliad. One example is Atreus. He is the father of Agamemnon, the king of kings mentioned in Iliad. Atreus's descendants are known as Atreidai or Atreidae. In Mahabharata Atri's descendants are known as Atreyas. Dattatreya is a famous sage in the line of Atri mentioned in Mahabharata. The Hittites called the Atreus as Attarsiya or Attarissiya which seems to be a corruption of the form Atri-Rishiya, which translates to:- the descendant of Atri-Rishi or sage Atri. This is found in the Hittite text on the 'Indictment of Madduwatta' (Madduwatta will be discussed in detail later).
The country of Atreus / Attarsiya / Atta-rissiya is mentioned in the Hittite text to be Ahhiyawa. Ahi is another name of the Nagas, the snake-worshiping tribe mentioned in Mahabharata. Many regions are mentioned in Indian-subcontinent as being associated with the Ahi tribe. There was a river named Iravati (Ravi_River in Punjab). It belonged to the Airavata-Nagas at some period of time. There was a city named Ahichatra in the southern foothills of the Himalayas (Wikipedia-Ahichatra) which served as the northern capital of the Panchalas (the main tribe who participated in the Kurukshetra war, the great war mentioned in Mahabharata). Ahi-chatra literally means the land of Ahis the Nagas. There was also a region to the north of Himalayas mentioned as the Airavata region which is considered to be a region populated by the Ahis or the Nagas. Thus, I consider that the forefathers of Atreus and Agamemnon could be originally from any of these regions, especially from the banks of the Iravati river of Punjab. They could be a branch of the Atri-tribe (the Atreyas as per Mahabharata) who lived on the banks of river Iravati.
This is now expanded into an article:- Vedic family-names in pre-historic Greece
A popular belief among those who study India's prehistory is that the people during the Vedic, Epic and Puranic age predominantly spoke the early Vedic and later Vedic-Sanskrit language which finally diversified into several Prakrit dialects. But there are several internal evidence in Mahabharata and Ramayana that people in those periods spoke multiple languages. Yudhisthira and Vidura is often mentioned as conversing in a Mlechcha language. In Ramayana, Hanuman is mentioned as conversing with Sita in a language other than Sanskrit, considered to be a Mlechcha language. Mahabharata also mentions that the people of Magadha used a language that used signs (script?), which could be the Mlechcha language from Saraswati valley.
I guess the Mlechcha language coexisted along with Vedic-Sanskrit and probably developed along with it on the banks of river Saraswati. Vedic-Sanskrit was then used by the scholars for intellectual exchange much like English is used now. Sanskrit was also used by the warriors when it was needed to communicate between people of different cultures. Mlechcha language was used mostly by traders, architects and the workers. This in no way meant that Mlechcha language was inferior. All the four orders used both the languages to some extend and the purpose of usage were different. Mlechcha language had a written form or a visible form where as Sanskrit lacked a script.
Scholars like Vyasa were conversant in both the languages, so were warriors like Yudhisthira. They used Mlechcha languages for secret communication or exchange of secret information in written or visible form. Mlechha language, with its script was also useful for trade and commerce and intercommunication among skilled workers like ship-builders, city-builders, architects, carpenters, potters etc. Vedic knowledge was still communicated in Vedic and Sanskrit language and was never written down. This has nothing to do with illiteracy of the ancient Indians, as they already knew writing and were aware of written scripts (language in a visible form). The reason was that the written form of the language was not sophisticated enough to contain the full meaning conveyed in the Vedic verses. There were no sound recording and play-back devices then. Hence, these scholarly texts were rendered into poetic verses and committed into memory as human brain was the only device available for the ancients to record and preserve these complex systems of knowledge. Mathematical and Astronomical treaties, texts on Medicine, Political Science, Economy, Warfare etc too were preserved through oral traditions along with the four Vedas, the two epics and the Puranas. Had all these been written down since the time of their composition using the written form of the language available in those periods instead of preserving them through oral traditions, we could have lost all of these knowledge for ever.
Mlechchas were spread through out ancient India. Mahabharata mentions Mlechcha territories along the mouth of Indus and Saraswati in the west (along the sea shores of Sindh and Gujarat) as well as along the mouth of Ganga in the east (in Bengal). They had also spread southwards along the eastern and western sea shores of India. Hence there could be several variants of Mlechcha languages. Their numerous kingdoms centered around sea-trade and were thus known to other sea-faring civilizations of the world, like Egypt, Greece and China. The western Mlechcha territories were known to the world as Meluhha. Apart from the Mlechcha language there was Munda language spoken in Gangatic basin and central India. The languages now known as Dravida-languages probably had thier origin in the ancient Mlechcha languages.
Currently, I am working on a series of travel articles, based on the narrations of travels mentioned in Mahabharata. Article on the travels of Pandu:- Pandu's Travels, is now complete. Work on the travels of Arjuna:- Arjuna's Travels is in progress. These articles can give insight to the ancient geography mentioned in Mahabharata.
Uragas were a tribe mentioned in Mahabharata. They are one among the few tribes that have migrated to almost all of the continents of the world including South America. They were a snake worshiping tribe and obviously Mahabharata classified them as one among the Naga (snake) tribes. Pulindas were a Himalayan tribe that found mention in Mahabharata.
Below are the links to the articles:-
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