Astras

The pages in the current category are some of the encouraging feed-backs I got about the AncientVoice Web site in the form of emails some running into lengthy dialogs. I spent considerable time receiving and answering them. But all the information generated in these emails are locked up inside them. I thought to make it useful for the general research community, so that the time I spent on it will be useful for more than just two people who are communicating (me and the other person). These contain a wealth of information, naturally emerged during the process of dialogs. It will help to answer similar questions somebody else may have. I can also avoid repeating what I told once. Being myself a researcher who unearth information from the ancient dialogs recorded in the epics and other ancient scriptures, I hope this will be useful for the general research community.

Created by Jijith Nadumuri at 17 Nov 2011 11:44 and updated at 11 Dec 2011 03:47

Matt Haberfeld is a researcher and game producer who studies ancient literature to know about weapons and costumes used by various cultures. He had interacted with me extensively on Astras (celestial weapons) mentioned in Mahabharata. He also wants to understand the Astras mentioned in Ramayana. As my free time has crunched to nothing I am not able to respond to many emails now. This email thread contains many information for other researchers and game developers having similar queries.

Table of Contents

Email Communication1

Matt Haberfeld
8/26/10

to me
Dear Jijith Nadumuri Ravi,

Greetings, I found your website while doing research on the Mahabharata and I really love it! I am reading both the Sacred Texts version that you have parsed on your ancientvoice website and the Amar Chitra Katha comic books at the same time. Even with two texts to refer to I do have some questions and I would be honored if you had the time to help me out with them.

1) What is Pratismriti? The book explains it as some kind of secret knowledge passed from Vyasa to Yudhisthira and then to Arjuna, but it doesn’t explain what the knowledge is about or why he needs it to obtain the celestial weapons.

2) In the Vana Parva, Arjuna goes looking for all the celestial weapons. However, in the Adi Parva there is a demonstration of skill where Arjuna uses many astras that he already knows (Mahabharata Adi Parva section 137). One of these weapons is the Antardhana Astra:

Source: Mahabharata Adi Parva section 137 - "By the Agneya weapon, he created fire, and by the Varuna weapon he created water, by the Vayavya weapon, he created air, and by the Parjanya weapon he created clouds. And by the Bhauma weapon, he created land, and by the Parvatya weapon, he brought mountains into being. By the Antardhana weapon all these were made to disappear."

Does he already know how to use the Antardhana Astra before Kuvera gives it to him in the Vana Parva?

Additionally, Arjuna is mainly looking to acquire the Brahmasira from Lord Shiva, but in the Adi Parva he acquires this knowledge from Drona. So does he already know how to use this weapon? Why would he seek it out if it was already bestowed upon him?

I apologize if these questions are simple, I am a westerner but I find the Mahabharata absolutely fascinating and I just want to know a little more about it. I do not know any sanskrit or hindi and I am worried that I am not understanding as much of it as I could be if I were just a little more knowledgeable. I also have a great deal of questions about both astras, but I thought I would start small for now. If you don't feel like you have time to help me out, could you point me in the direction of someone you think would be in a position to assist me? Thank you for your time and I really applaud your effort to make the Mahabharata more accessible to English speakers. Everyone can learn a lot from these epic stories!

Email Communication2

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
8/27/10

to Matt
Dear Matt Haberfeld

1)

Please see the link below to know about all the sciences / knowledge bodies / secret-sciences prevailed during the time of Mahabharata:- http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh-category:knowledge-body

During the period of the Pandavas, there were several sciences (body of knowledge) that were transmitted orally. Some of them were called Sruti ('that which is heard') and some of them were called Smriti ('that which is remembered'). Sruti was considered as authentic and primary information known to most of the academics of that period (ancient sages / Rishis). For example Rig Veda is a Sruti. Visible layer of information in Rig Veda has no secrecy in it. But it contains hidden layers of knowledge that can be deciphered using supplementary information (keys to unlock the hidden layers of information). These secondary or supplementary information is usually considered part of Smriti.

Smriti is not considered as authentic. It is thus given a secondary status compared to the Vedas including Rig Veda which are Srutis. Examples of Smritis are laws of Manu called Manu-smriti, which were rules of conduct for a society applicable only for a period of time and cannot be applied universally. Not all people believe in a Smriti. However it was important for people who preserved secret information. Prati-Smriti refers to this secret knowledge. It is not the name of a specific science or a specific secret-knowledge but a generic term denoting all kinds of secret knowledges.

The word 'Prati' has a dual meaning:- 'against' or 'with respect to'. Thus Prati-Smrit crudely translates to 'anti-Smriti' or 'with-respect-to-Smriti' and generically to secret-knowledges transmitted orally which are remembered, but that which is not heard being recited formally by any authority.

Vyasa had knowledge of several such secret-sciences. In the narration that you mentioned, Vyasa imparted a specific secret-knowledge (Prati-Smrit) to Yudhisthira. It is a collection of Mantras (chants or verses). From various references on Mahabharata what I could understand was that this specific secret-knowledge enabled Arjuna to travel and cross the high-altitude mountains of Himalayas, withstand atmosphere containing less amount of oxygen and allowed him to "see" the celestial beings (Shiva, Indra, Varuna, Yama and Kuvera) and converse with them.

Some people (like Yudhisthira) are good at by-hearting a Mantra when it is uttered only once and some (like Arjuna) are good at applying and enduring it though they take time to by-heart it. Hence Vyasa imparted this Prati-Smriti to Yudhisthira and not to Arjuna. Yudhisthira then taught it to Arjuna who learned it slowly, but who can now put the knowledge into action.

2)

Drona himself was and authority of celestial weapons that Arjuna sought from the celestials. During his military education Arjuna had indeed learned most of these celestial weapons from Drona. But they were not as efficient as the once he learned directly from the celestial masters (Shiva, Varuna, Yama, Kuvera and Indra). Drona obtained it from Bharadwaja and Bharadwaja from Bhargava who learned it from the same celestial masters. Since the science of these weapons are orally transmitted Mantras (some sort of voice-command to invoke power into ordinary arrows) when learned from secondary or later sources it can contain errors or its effect will be diminished. During the archery competition most of what Arjuna showed with these weapons were some illusions whose effectiveness in an actual battle is not tested. In my view, there could be difference in the power of celestial weapons Arjuna learned from Drona (which were close to illusions) to those he learned directly from the celestial masters (which were more powerful and which can cause severe damage to the opponents).

However some weapons like Antardhana (which literally means disappearance) is always an optical illusion. It is caused by affecting the mind of the opponent rather than changing the optical properties of the surroundings. However I am still investigating on it. I am writing articles on the theory of celestial weapons exploring the possibility of them being result of extraterrestrial technology transfer among many other possibilities (like Yoga power). They will be published in my site soon.

I am happy to know about your interest in Mahabharata.

Regards

Email Communication3

Matt Haberfeld
8/30/10

to me
Jijith-

Thank you for your excellent response. This explains a lot and I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. As for my interest in Mahabharata:

1) I have a passion for national epics. I have read pretty much all of the western epics (Greek, Irish/Welsh, Arthurian, Norse, etc.) and many eastern books as well (Journey to the West, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Shahnameh, etc.). What I like about them is, as you read about the heroes and their actions you get an idea for what that culture thinks is important, how they define good and evil, what behavior is virtuous, etc. The Mahabharata is espcially interesting because it is so much more complex than a western epic and there is a heavy focus on ascetic merit. In most western epics, the "ideal man" is a kshatriya and there is nothing higher than being a king or a hero. For them the end goal is just the accumulation of land, wealth, and fame. But in the mahabharata it is not enough to just be strong; you must also conduct yourself appropriately in all situations, and achieve discipline of the mind as well as the body.

2) I design video games in my spare time, and Indian weapons/armor and concepts are missing from virtually all western games and most eastern games too. For example, if you play Final Fantasy, there will always be weapons with western names like "Excalibur" or "Gae Bolg" but you will rarely see things like "Gandiva" or "Kaumodaki". I would like to catalogue all of the weapons and armor from the Mahabharata and Ramayana for possible use in a game. I don't have a specific game in mind yet but I want to take the notes now while I am reading. I would also like to catalogue the astras, and any other magical powers that might translate into a game but this is where I have the most questions.

3) I am conducting a similar project to your website with all of the national epics that I have read so far. What I do is catalogue all of the character names, places, monsters, and equipment into a database for possible use in a future game. The idea would be that if I wanted to create a game based on Greek mythology, I could randomly pull character names from the database to be the names of characters in the game and they would sound authentic. I could also create random locations in the game world that matched famous places in Greek mythology, etc. Somewhere down the road, I would like to release all this knowledge as a series of dictionaries that players could add to their games to provide this information easily without them having to spend hundreds of hours on research. I have about 30,000 records so far. For instance I have 1,100 names of demons from various cultures, all of the names of the nymphs from Greek mythology, thousands of male and female names ranging from kings and warriors to priests and sorcerers, etc.

If you don't mind I would love to ask you questions about the astras in particular as this information does not seem to be well documented on the web. For instance we talked about the Antardhana astra briefly but in my research I have come across several different explanations for what it is and how it works:

1. Makes other astras disappear?
Arjuna used the Antardhana Astra during a demonstration of skill.
Source: Mahabharata Adi Parva section 137 - "By the Agneya weapon, he created fire, and by the Varuna weapon he created water, by the Vayavya weapon, he created air, and by the Parjanya weapon he created clouds. And by the Bhauma weapon, he created land, and by the Parvatya weapon, he brought mountains into being. By the Antardhana weapon all these were made to disappear."
2. Makes the shooter of the astra invisible?
Source: Illustration in the Amar Chitra Katha comic book
3. Antardhana Astra is depicted as a torch or staff and described as the "all-effacing destroyer of enemies" and was used by Kuvera to burn Asuras.
Source: Amar Chitra Katha comic book
4. Puts foes to sleep?
Antarddhana - Given to Arjuna by Kuvera.
Source: Mahabharata, Vana Parva section 41 - "Accept of me also without loss of time, an excellent weapon. With this thou wilt be able to consume the ranks of Dhritarashtra. Take then this favourite weapon of mine called Antarddhana. Endued with energy and prowess and splendour, it is capable of sending the foe to sleep."
From these sources I am not sure if the Antardhana weapon is an astra, or a physical weapon (staff/torch), or both, and exactly what powers it has. Knowing simply that the word Antardhana means "disappearance" is a huge help and is the kind of thing that I cannot learn from a Google search as that information just hasn't been translated into English yet or at least I cannot find it.

I would be happy to help you with your research if I can, or share what I have done so far if you think it is interesting. So far I have found names for about 45 astras, 35 unique or celestial weapons, and 40 "mundane" weapons that regular soldiers might use. It's a daunting task, but I would like to understand them all if I can.

Sorry for the length of the email, once I get started talking about Mahabharata I just can't stop! I look forward to hearing from you.

Email Communication4

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
9/5/10

to Matt
Dear Matt

As you rightly pointed out Mahabharata is not just the history of kings and warriors but also the history of sages and truth seekers. Mahabharata is not just about war but about what leads humans to go for war and about what are the consequence of war.

It is interesting to know that you are developing video games. I too have similar hobbies but my knowledge is limited to Mahabharata and Ramayana, the two epics of India and do not know epics of other nations in detail. I know the story of Iliad and Odyssey, the Greek epics but not in full details. I develop some game engines using C++ / DirectX and create sprites by modeling characters (like Arjuna in 3DSMax)

Below are some online demos:-
http://technospace.wikidot.com/game-surface
http://technospace.wikidot.com/silverlight-arjuna
http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/arjuna
http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/bhima

Your categorization will definitely be a great help for all who wants to create games based on mythology.

Coming back to astras, the better interpretation of Antardhana astra will be based on its meaning viz. disappearance. I have never came across a passage where it is used to make the shooter of the arrow invisible, ie it do not do the function of an invisible cloak. It affects the mind of the opponent and cause something he wanted to see disappear. Thus it can make the surroundings of the opponent disappear, like a mountain in the vicinity, his allied troops vital for his survival, his weapons etc. Thus it functions like the trick of a magician. It can also undo the illusion effects of previous astras. Thus it acts like an 'undo' button. This is what happens in Mahabharata Adi Parva section 137.

Since this weapon is affecting the mind it can also make the opponent unconscious / forget / confused / asleep. This is what is explained in Mahabharata, Vana Parva section 41. If we compare it with some future technology depicted in some sci-fi movies, this astra could be forcefully-writing-information into the brains of the opponent which can cause him to see / or not see something or can make him unconscious or even kill (when applied at high intensity).

There is also another weapon named Sammohana (that which deludes) astra which also make the similar effect (it can make one unconscious / forget / confused / deluded /asleep). But it is never mentioned as causing disappearance-effect. Thus Sammohana overlaps in function with Antardhana.

Due to such overlaps, the list of astras cannot be fool proof in accurate sense but can be OK for a video game. Another point to be noted is the difference between astra and ordinary weapon. From the reading of ancient Indian texts (Mahabharata, Ramayana, Puranas) what can be observed is that there is no distinct boundary between ordinary weapons and astras. Usually astras are invoked upon ordinary weapons (like an ordinary arrow, shot from a bow). Thus astras are like 'software' that are invoked into the ordinary weapons ('hardware'). There are also some references where astras are invoked by thought alone or by mere utterance with no mediating physical object like an arrow but its effect still felt / experienced by the opponent / opponents.

Let us continue our discussions. Are you in the professional network named Linked-In? I would like to make you a connection in Linked In. This is because I have a dream of making a game / virtual world on Mahabharata to be hosted on internet to experience the Mahabharata period and its events in two versions, one focusing on fiction / para-normal / imagination and other on realism / rationalism. I am connecting with people who can make this a reality.

Regards

Email Communication5

Matt Haberfeld
9/7/10

to me
Jijith-

I do not have a Linked In account, but I would definitely be interested in talking to you about making a game. I am mostly a designer or architect of games and I hire others do the programming, art and sound. I do the research to make sure the game makes sense, I come up with the concept, story, and how the game works (formulas, calculations, lists of items, monsters, abilities etc.). I then write a design document with all this information and hire someone who can build the game from that. It is tough, there is a big gap between people who are professionals but they charge so much that you would never make any money from your game and people who just do it as a hobby but are not reliable to stay with a long term project even if you pay them.

I like the work you've done so far in the links that you sent me, did you do the models yourself? My favorite type of games are the isometric tactical games, so your art style appeals to me. What kind of game were you thinking about making? I would certainly be willing to help you come up with something unless you already know what you want. If we decided on a more serious arrangement I could certainly get a Linked In account if that would make communication easier.

I agree with you about how astras would work in a video game. There is no direct equivalent in the west, but I think the closest thing would called "enchantment" where you take something mundane (like an arrow) and with "magic" you make it more powerful. So to use an astra in a game, you would have to spend energy or magic points to turn a regular arrow into an astra. For overlapping astras like you mentioned, you can change the cost of using the astra, the duration, and/or the effect. So perhaps the Sammohana costs 10 energy and puts the target to sleep for 5 seconds, and the Antardhana costs 20 energy but puts the target to sleep for 15 seconds. Sammohana is less expensive, but Antardhana is more efficient. That way they can both be in the game and even do the same thing, but the player would choose the right astra based on the situation in the game. For the astras that do not need a "medium" (arrow) that would just be a spell in a regular game. Nothing too complicated there.

When you say that Antardhana means disappearance and Sammohana means "that which deludes" is that the hindi translation or from sanskrit? Also, can you explain to me the difference between Brahma Astra and Brahmasira? The very short explanation for Brahmasira on wikipedia is:

"A weapon capable of greater destruction than the Brahmastra. It is said to be evolution of brahmastra. It can burn all creation to ashes once discharged. Gifted by Brahma."

Brahmastra does not seem to be in the Mahabharata as far as I can tell, but rather in the Ramayana. Also, according to the Amar Chitra Katha comic book, Brahmasira is the same as Pasupata, which will produce "thousands of spears, menacing maces, and innumerable arrows". But this differs from my other research on Pasupata. According to the version on sacred texts, I believe Arjuna requested the Brahmasira from Lord Shiva but received the Pasupata instead. Its effect when used improperly is the destruction of all creation (similar to Brahmastra). So I am a bit confused and it is difficult to do research on one of the astras without relating it to the others.

Thanks again for your help and I look forward to your reply.

-Matt

Email Communication6

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
9/9/10

to Matt
Matt-

Linked-In:-

You need not create Linked-in account if it is only to connect with me. I use Linked-in to connect professionally with people sharing similar interests. Here is my linked page:- http://in.linkedin.com/pub/jijith-nadumuri-ravi/14/2a2/228. I am by profession a software expert and work for a public limited Indian MNC. It involves some R&D on 3D visualization, CAD / CAM etc. I am also an artist and so create 3D models using 3DSMax (http://technospace.wikidot.com/bhima, http://technospace.wikidot.com/arjuna). I worked for a gaming company in the beginning of my career. I also worked as a scientist in India's space research organization which sends spacecrafts into space. Due to all these backgrounds, I maintain a circle of contacts in the domain of art, research and software. For this, I found linked-in to be the best platform.

For the last few months I have connected with many people including 3D professional artists in Vancouver, and in India and across the globe, other researchers like me who research on Mahabharata and Ramayana and software experts like me who can help me make a game when I am ready.

Game Development:-

My situation is not very different. I can handle the programming aspects of developing a Game myself. I can also create 3D models in 3DSMax, generate sprites from it and enhance the scene background by creating paintings using Adobe Photoshop. But I am not a professionally trained 3D artist. I picked up it because I am an artist since my childhood and used to paint using watercolor and oil paint and create clay models. What I showed you is the snapshots of some of my game-engine software I developed as a hobby. It is an isometric strategy game engine. This is because I am a fan of AOE and wants to create an AOE type RTS isometric game on Mahabharata, because I know everything to do that. I also have plan to make an SecondLife type virtual world on Mahabharata. Unlike SL here you should be able to log in as a scholar (Brahmana), warrior (Kshatriya), trader (Vaishya) or as a worker (Sudra) and should be able to interact with events occurred during Mahabharata, meet people lived in those times, say Arjuna or go to places, kingdoms existed during this period.

The company I work does not produce game though they are thinking about it as a new domain due to my constant persuasion. It is a corporate company and decision making is slow. So the game development expertise, I keep for myself for the moment. However the R&D on Mahabharata involves efforts spread in shorter spurts of time which is now available with me. Hence I created this web-site named AncientVoice. I also developed a software do parse Mahabharata and generate analysis report in the form of wiki-web-pages. I am now focusing on this web-site and keeping the idea of developing games in the suspended mode. I am keeping my Gaming ideas and technical articles in another of my website named Technospace. I will work on a Mahabharata-Game when I have all the favorable conditions available. For me, this means 1) my current company agrees to enter into Gaming domain. 2) I join a Game Developing company. 3) I get a lot of connection with like-minded people across the globe who can work to develop a Game. For the moment I am thinking about a game on Mahabharata only. But I am also open to other themes (space exploration is another them that excites me) since the whole process of making a Game is more rewarding than playing a Game. Some of my Linked-In contacts are from Veda-Games who had worked on a game on Mahabharata. I guess you too are interested in making similar games.

I also want to make two versions of the Game or rather two games with different points of view. One way of looking at Mahabharata (or any epic or mythology) is to believe on everything it says. Another way is to analyze it and extract what has happened historically. I had looked on Mahabharata in both ways and I want to give justice to both views. For example when we talk about Astras, I just don't stop at counting all of them or only note down the description of each of them, but also think:- Is it possible? So, if you have read many of the articles in my website, I have tried to give a rational explanation to every incident mentioned in Mahabharata. I also do not completely banish the possibility of irrationality / para-normal incidents / existence of things that we do not know. One possibility is the presence of aliens and transfer of alien technology during Mahabharata period. In this view, the Astras would be an alien technology transferred to the warriors like Arjuna from aliens like Indra (the king of the Devas). Another possibility is that these are the advance manifestation of mental power, the remnant of which is now seen in India as Yoga. In this view, the Astras would be an expression of mental energy expressed through a medium (such as an arrow) or otherwise.

Astras:-

Answering your questions:-

Antardhana means 'disappearance' in Sanskrit as well as in Malayalam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayalam)- my native language, which is derived from Sanskrit and Tamil. In Hindi, which is derived from Sanskrit and Urdu (derived from Persian), the corresponding word is 'Gayab'. So, Hindi (the national language of India) do not use the Sanskrit word for disappearance; it uses the Urdu word instead.

Sammohana means 'delusion' / 'unconsciousness' in Sanskrit. In Malayalam it means 'mesmerizing' which is somewhat similar to its Sanskrit meaning viz. delusion. Hindi again uses the Urdu word 'behosh' (devoid of consciousness).

As per my knowledge, Pasupata is same as Brahmasira. It is the ultimate weapon. It is used for the destruction of universe when it is to be dissolved for the birth of new universe. I also guess your difficulty in classifying the Astras properly is because various sources vary in the definition for each of the Astras. This is because, in the course of time, the knowledge about the astras are lost. I do not think there exist anybody in India today who know them exactly as it was used. What my analysis shows is that after Mahabharata war (which I consider as a historical incident and not just a mythology or fable or fiction) many secret knowledges (knowledge of astras included) perished or started declining. Subsequently, many Puranas are created or older Puranas are updated. In these, you find many technical / philosophical / secret-science definitions mixed up or distorted.

If your objective is to develop a Game, you can afford to have a lesser accuracy in the definition. If you are a researcher on history / mythology you may need a higher accuracy. Since the available knowledge do not allow us to go beyond a certain accuracy we should either content with the limited accuracy or we should give the source of each definition of the same Astra separately (like Astra A: Definition as per Mahabharata, definition as per XYZ Purana etc etc).

Amar Chitra Katha

Amar Chitra Katha is an excellent source to understand Mahabharata and other Indian texts, visually. But writers of Amar Chitra Katha, especially Mahabharata series, had only limited time to do extensive research. For example this series was created when I was a around 10 to13 years of age. Now there has been 20 years of more research into Mahabharata and some of the depictions in this book now need change. One example is the research on Asuras. Earlier it was thought Asuras were black skinned people similar to the people seen in southern India and Sri-Lanka. New research shows that Asuras and Devas looked alike as they are from the same family. Some of the Asura traditions are seen in Zend Avesta (dislike of Devas calling them Daiva or demons etc) which is an Iranian text corresponding to the Rig Veda of India.

Similarly is the definition of Demon. A popular belief is that Asura = Demon; or Rakshasa = Demon. this is not so. The Asuras called the Devas as Demons. Rakshasas were not man-eaters or giants as a rule. Some of them where Kshatriya warriors. Latest research also shows that the tribes like Rakshasas (often mis-understood as giants like Centaurs or as man-eaters), the Yakshas (often mis-understood as Vampires or as blood suckers), the Gandharvas (often mis-understood to be travelling through sky), the Vanaras (often mis-understood as apes or as monkeys) the Kinnaras, the Kimpurushas etc were actually indigenous tribes existed in parallel with the Vedic trbies in India. They had slightly different habits and cultural framework. For example the Rakshasas did not had the concept of a scholar (Brahmana) class. All of them behaved like warriors (Kshatriyas). So they were often looked upon as bad by the Brahmanas.

Regards

Email Communication7

Matt Haberfeld
9/11/10

to me
Jijith-

It sounds like you have as much or more experience than I do with game development. I have only been developing games for 8 years, mostly as a hobby, and have not had a great deal of success until recently. It also sounds like you know exactly what you want to do with the games which is good. The virtual world sounds exciting, but it would be a very challenging project to undertake to say the least!

I agree with your assessment that the events in Mahabharata were actual historical events or at least based upon them. One of the things that makes the Mahabharata so interesting is the level of detail that the text goes into. It is very rare for literature in the west to describe exactly how a magical item or spell works, but in the Mahabharata you can read how to obtain an astra, how to invoke it, what it looks like and exactly what the effect is. It is simply too descriptive to be a pure fiction.

I also agree with your assessment on the different "tribes" in the Mahabharata. For a video game, it is advantageous to use the older mythological interpretations because in games the players usually need monsters to fight. I also think there was a lot of effort by the west to force Indian mythological creatures into their Greek counterparts. You can certainly see the parallels between Kinnara and Centaur, Apsara and Nymph. I'm not really sure why that is, I guess it was all before my time. :) This is probably the best reason to make two games where one focuses on the history and the other the mythology. There is a big difference between a Yaksha being a forest spirit that guards nature's treasures and can turn invisible, and the Yakshas being a remote tribe that lives at the base of Mount Kailasa. :)

Concerning the astras, I would prefer a higher level of accuracy if at all possible, because I would like to post my findings to www.cleandungeon.com. On this website, I catalogue all of the weapons and equipment that I have come across in my gaming and research. I also draw most of the images, and the site is one of the better online references for this kind of thing. While I maintain the stance that the site is "for entertainment purposes only" and I generally don't include my sources in the articles, I still try to do the best I can to be accurate. My goal is for each article to be as good or better than wikipedia. :)

So let me add more confusion to our discussion on Brahmasira a bit. One of the sites that got me started on my research is: http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/330-brahmastra-other-divine-weapons-puranas.html. The author of this article seems to indicate that Brahmasira and Pasupata are indeed different because they come from a different deity. Unfortunately the only astra he explains in great detail is the Brahma Astra. I'm not really sure how to verify the accuracy of his article, but I do know that the website has been plagiarized many times elsewhere on the net, and quite often when I find a website with information on astras it is copied from here either directly or indirectly. I do not want to imply that you are mistaken, I just don't really know what to do when I come across two sources that are slightly different. I wish I was more confident about the subject material, then perhaps I could draw my own conclusions based on what I know.

Additionally, I have been doing research on Aisika, the grass reed missile. I believe this is the weapon that Aswatthaman used on Parikshit, but on the Indiadivine site it says that he used Brahmasira, not Aisika. So I thought perhaps Aisika and Brahmasira were the same, but that would mean that Pasupata, Brahmasira, and Aisika are all the same. Could that be the case? I'm sure you can see why I am so confused, and any help you could provide will be much appreciated. :)

Email Communication8

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
9/12/10

to Matt
Matt-

We shall discuss more about the game development when we have a favorable condition.

Regarding your question:-

Aishika is the name of the material or object in which the astra is invoked. In Sanskrit, Ishika means consisting of stalks, made of reeds or canes. However there is difference in the explanation on which was the astra that was invoked upon the aishika weapon. Most of the references in Mahabharata says it is Brahma-sira asta, a few says it is Brahma astra.

There are differing statements on the relationship of Bramha, Brahmasira and Pasupata. Some equate Brahma with Brahmasira; some equate Pasupata with Brahmasira; some consider all three as different. (Sources Amar Chitra Katha, Mahabharata, Ramayana).

In the link below you can get information on all the weapons mentioned in Mahabharata, including many ordinary military weapons and many divine astras like Brahmastra, Brahmasira and Pasupata:-

http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh-category:weapon.

Perhaps this could help.

Regards

Email Communication9

Matt Haberfeld
9/17/10

to me
Jijith-

Aishika referring to the material makes a lot of sense, I don't know why I didn't consider that. Thank you for your help. I think I have a reasonable understanding of Brahmastra, Brahmasira, and Aisika. I would like to ask some more questions about Pasupata and see if the discussion reveals the differences (if any) between it and Brahmasira. First, what do Brahmasira and Pasupata mean? I came across this website: http://www.charkey.com/hindu_gods/deities/saiva/mahes/subdocs/full-TEXT.html which equates Pasupata with the word spear. But it is not a physical weapon, is it? Are either of these two weapons ever illustrated in ancient or even modern works?

I also came across this website: http://www.bhagavadgitausa.com.cnchost.com/FIERY%20LINGAM,%20BRAHMA%20AND%20VISHNU.htm in which Lord Brahma and Vishnu are in conflict. Brahma uses the mahesvara weapon and Vishnu uses the pasupata weapon. The story confuses me a bit because I was under the assumption that Vishnu had many personal weapons at his disposal and I'm not sure why he would use pasupata. I'm also not clear about the use of the "mahesvara weapon". It was my understanding that mahesvara referred to Lord Shiva himself, and not a weapon. Is there a weapon called mahesvara? Is it similar or different than the other weapons at his disposal?

I have written up articles for some of the astras that we have already talked about. I can post them for you to review if you are interested.

-Matt

Email Communication10

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
9/17/10

to Matt
Matt-

If we understand that an astra (a Mantra, a spell for invocation, that can be uttered, or recited in mind or invoked into an object either by uttering the Mantra or reciting it in mind) is independent of the physical weapon (arrows, spears, reeds, sticks, a piece of straw or anything) much of the confusion can be avoided. Thus it is possible to have the Pasupata weapon visible as a spear, if Siva chose to invoke it into a spear. In the article pointed by you, the author too is not aware of this fact or chose not to elaborate on this. Hence it says spear = Pasupata.

In Mahabharata a narration mentions about one of the application of Pasupata by Siva to destroy the three space-cities revolving around Earth, controlled by Danava kings. There Siva's weapon is mentioned as a long shaft, much like a spear, but much larger (probably as large as a satellite launch vehicle:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosynchronous_Satellite_Launch_Vehicle) as it has to intercept three revolving space-cities.

There are also several references in Mahabharata where a bow is used to shoot spears, maces and other weapons. So not only conventional arrows, any weapon can be shot as a projectile-weapon using a bow, if sufficient power is produced by the bow.

Your idea of understanding the difference of these astras (brahmastra, brahmasira and pasupata) based on they etymology is a valid one. The word Brahma can mean different things. First it means one of the three Trinity-God, Brahma the creator. The Puranas often speak about this Brahma. Another meaning of Brahma (often expressed as Brahman, to denote neutral-gender or genderless nature) is Brahma the universal-consciousness or the ultimate reality or the ultimate truth. This Brahma / Brahman is often described in the Vedas and the Upanishads. In rare occasions, Brahma can also mean a member of the Brahmana order / caste.

The root word in Brahma / Brahman, ie, Brh means to expand, to swell, to grow, to enlarge. That is the reason why the expanding universe is considered to be a manifestation of the Brahman (universal consciousness) in the Vedas and the Upanishads. This is also the reason why the Trinity God Brahma, is considered as the creator of the universe. The former is close to modern cosmology (science) and the later is close to religious beliefs.

I guess the weapon Brahma-astra, got its name due to the same reason. This weapon cause an explosion and expands the air where it is applied, destroying everything in the sphere of impact. Thus it acts like a thermo-nuclear bomb. In the following link I had expressed some of these thoughts:- (http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/article:alien-presence-during-mahabharata). The weapon probably got associated with God Brahma due to similarity of name and nothing else. There is no reference of God Brahma using the Brahma weapon (at least in Mahabharata, there could be such mention in some obscure Purana). God Brahma is a creator and he seldom takes up destructive activities.

Brahma-Sira:- As I explained Brahma, let me explain Sira. In Sanskrit Sira / Siras means 'head', or Latin 'cephalum'. Thus Brahma-Sira means Brahma's head or an expanding head. As mentioned in one of the links provided by you Siva plucked Brahma's fifth head as he got angry with Brahma due to a lie told by Brahma. However no astra is associated with Brahma's lost head nor is Siva mentioned as using any astra for plucking Brahma's fifth head as per this story (taken from Linga Purana). Hence I guess the correct meaning of Brahma-Sira is the second one, meaning an expanding head. Here the word 'head' seems to be a technical term used in military. The words 'arm', 'head', 'wing', 'tail' etc are frequently used in Mahabharata as military terms that are some times confused as human organs. For example, Rakshasa king Ravana has ten heads and twenty arms means that Ravana had a huge army consisting of ten heads or chiefs and twenty arms / army wings / army units. Another king Kartavirya-Arjuna had thousand arms (army units). The expanding-head can also be a description on the after effect of Brahma-sira weapon in a battle field:- an expanding cloud of nuclear material emerging from the point of impact. Some of narrations in Mahabharata indeed speak about these expanding clouds as an after-effect of using weapons including Brahma-sira. Thus it could be a nuclear weapon.

Pasupata: This comes from the word 'Pasu-Pati'. Pasu means animal / beast and Pati means the loard. Thus Pasu-Pati means the lord of the beasts. This is an epithet of Siva. God Siva is often depicted as the Lord of the Beasts. It is part of Siva's iconography. Siva as Pasu-Pati is depicted in the zeals obtained as part of Indus-Valley-Civilization. A bull is often shown as attending to Siva. So the beast mentioned here is a bull. The bull (named Nandi) is often mentioned as Siva's mount and as one of the leaders of Siva's army. The word Pasupata, simply means belonging to Pasupati (Siva). Thus the name of the astra Pasupata simply indicates that this astra originally belongs to Pasupati or Siva.

The links provided by you are taken from one of the 18 Puranas (Eg:- Siva Purana, Linga Purana). A considerable part of the Puranas were created subsequent to the creation of core portions of Mahabharata, ie they were created after 3000 BC. The knowledge about astras declined after the great-war of Mahabharata occured around 3000 BC. Hence the Puranas contains variations in their descriptions and the historical content in them is very limited. It mostly contains stories about the the three Trinity-Gods (Brahma, Vishnu, Siva) which the Hindu worshipers consider sacred and believe them without questioning anything mentioned in those stories.

In the following link you can find information on all the Puranas (18 major, and several minor Puranas) in comparison with Mahabharata and Ramayana.http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/article:comparison-of-ancient-indian-texts.

Maheswara weapon simply means the weapon of Maheswara (Siva). Since these stories are from Puranas, I do not associate much value to these narrations. Puranas contain lot of contradictions and errors. Puranas contain stories that make one among the Trinities greater than the other. In one Vishnu is the greatest, in another Siva and in another Brahma. These were created by the adherents of Siva, Vishnu and Brahma worshipers. Due to this, the 18 main Puranas were divided into three groups each praising one among the three Trinity Gods. Some of these narrations are symbolic representations of astronomy-concepts (http://ancientindians.net/2009/12/06/the-fifth-head-of-brahma-and-siva-astronomical-significance/) . Some are used to subvert the Vedic / Upanishadic belief in the concept of Brahman (which is based on intellectual thought) and to replace it with Vishnu or Siva worship which is based on devotion. Concept of Brahman is difficult to understand and it is high philosophy (like the Quantum Physics or the Theory of Relativity). Devotion is simple and easy to understand for the common man.

I would like to see your articles. Sure.

Regards

Email Communication11

Matt Haberfeld
9/17/10

to me
Jijith-

One of the problems I have during my research is that I give all of the sources I come across equal weight because I don't know enough about the subject material to make those kinds of determinations myself. So when a website says "Pasupata = spear" I just have to take it at face value. Working with you is very helpful because you can explain which sources are more and less valuable.

I have attached a small document with the write ups of the astras we have talked about so far. Ignore the links and formatting; I write the articles as they would appear when posted on my site, tags and all. The target audience is someone who knows nothing about weapons or mythology but might have seen the word online or in a game and the article serves as a first introduction to the material similar to wikipedia but slightly more focused. Most important is to avoid anything that is incorrect. If the information is speculative I may include it but try to use a qualifier such as "it is believed" or "may mean", etc. Second is to inspire someone's interest, share knowledge, and entertain.

As you can see in the first article, I have a long list of astras that I have come across, some of them I have no information on other than a name. If you don't mind, the next astra that is causing me the most trouble in researching is Sakti. I have also seen Amoghastra, Amoghashakti, Vasavi Shakti and I'm not sure if they all refer to the same thing. Wikipedia says that the Mahabharata uses the term Amoghastra but I could not find it in the Sacred Texts translation. Here is the quote that did find in MBH:

Source: Mahabharata Adi Parva Section 111 - "And the chief of the celestials accepted the gift and was exceedingly gratified with Karna's liberality. He therefore, gave unto him a fine dart, saying, 'That one (and one only) among the celestials, the Asuras, men, the Gandharvas, the Nagas, and the Rakshasas, whom thou desirest to conquer, shall be certainly slain with this dart."

There is a Yaksha named Amogha, so I thought that it might mean "the weapon of Amogha" but it seems that Sakti is the weapon of Indra. Also and I believe "Vasavi" is another word for Indra so if that is correct Vasava Shakti just means the weapon of Indra. I'm unclear on wikipedia's reference to Amoghastra. On another site I saw that Amogha may mean "infallible/unfailing" or "cannot fail to give results" so that may be where it comes from. Could you help me put all this together? :) Thanks again.

-Matt

astras.htm
17K View Download

Email Communication12

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
9/20/10

to Matt
Matt-

Sakti in Sanskrit means power / force. Mahabharata mentions about Indra giving this weapon to Karna in exchange of Karna's body-armor. This weapon is different from a typical celestial-weapon / astra, that it can be used only once. It is because Indra has already invoked the power (shakti) into the weapon using the Mantra for it and gave it to Karna, with out disclosing the Mantra to him (technology transfer without disclosing full secrets). Due to this Karna can only hurl it once on his greatest enemy which the weapon is sure to kill. But Karna has no knowledge of withdrawing it. Since he do not know the associated Mantra he cannot also reuse it (invoke the mantra into another weapon and use it). As you can see in the subsequent passages, Karna wanted to use it to kill Arjuna but was forced to use it against Ghatotkacha. Vasava is Indra. So the weapon can be rightfully called Indra's weapon or Vasava's weapon or Vasavi. Similar weapon was also used by Kartikeya, the commander of Indra's army in another battle (against Taraka Asura).

Amogha means 'drastic' so Amogha-Shakti could mean drastic-power. It also has the secondary meaning 'infallible'. The astra has nothing to do with the Yaksha of that name. Among the Yakshas, only their chief Kuvera (Kubera) possessed celestial astras.

About the document:-

I guess you can remove Aishika from the list of celestial weapons / astras, but mention it as a case in which an astra (Brahmasira) is invoked onto an ordinary reed stalk. The case is similar to a narration in Ramayana where Rama invoked an astra into a piece of straw. We won't call the piece of straw a celestial weapon / astra.

I suggest you can also divide list of astras into three or more categories:-

Most powerful Astras

Brahma
Brahmasira
Pasupata
Vaishava
Saiva

Powerful Astras

Aidra
Agneya
Varuna
Naga
Garuda
Vayavya
Parjanya
Sammohana
Antardhana
Prajna
etc

Ordinary Astras (Projectile Weapons)

Arrows
Straws
Aishika
Stick
Reeds
Spears
Vel (i don't know English word for it; it looks like a spear but has a hearts (card-games) shape at its head)
long shafts
poles
bamboo
javaline
etc

Meanings in Malayalam:- If you give meanings in Sanskrit, giving meanings in Malayalam will be irrelevant since words in Malayalam were loans from Sanskrit. Several other languages like Kannada, Telugu and Hindi too has inherited from Sanskrit. Though my native language is Malayalam and I am proud that it has the largest number of Sanskrit words in daily use, I guess scholars won't prefer meanings in Malayalam when dealing with subjects like this. But if you want to mention meanings in a language in daily use you can mention Malayalam as you have done in the document. I leave it to you.

Regards

Email Communication13

Matt Haberfeld
9/20/10

to me
Jijith-

Great, I'm glad the articles were not full of errors! :) I will have to think about how I want to portray them to potential readers. Alphabetically is certainly easiest for me, but is probably of little value to others. There is no urgency though, I am not planning to post anything until I have finished my research so that I can post them all at the same time.

I feel like I have come a long way and a lot of my confusion has been dispelled. There are still astras that I have a name for but know nothing about, you mentioned Saiva as one of the most powerful astras and I had never even heard of it. I also came across two interesting passages in the Mahabharata that may take awhile for us to work through:

"And Arjuna, having dwelt for five years in the abode of him of a thousand eyes, and having from that lord of celestials obtained all the celestial weapons,—such as those of Agni, of Varuna, of Soma, of Vayu, of Vishnu, of Indra, of Pasupati, of Brahma, of Parameshthi, of Prajapati, of Yama, of Dhata, of Savita, of Tvashta, and of Vaisravana; and having bowed down to and gone round him of a hundred sacrifices, and taken his (Indra's) permission, cheerfully came to the Gandhamadana."
Source: Mahabharata, Vana Parva section 163

"Then taking Sthunakarna, and Varuna and Salava, and Asmavarsha weapons, I assailed him, profusely showering shafts."
Source: Mahabharata, Vana Parva section 166

After reading these passages I wanted to match up the deity with the weapon, but was unable to do so for most of the names. Here is what I have so far:

Agni - Agni Astra
Asmavarsha - ?
Brahma - Brahma Astra, Brahmasira, maybe both?
Dhata - ?
Indra - Aindra Astra, Vajra, Visoshana? How many weapons are attributed to Indra?
Parameshthi - ?
Pasupati - Pasupata
Prajapati - ?
Salava - ?
Savita - ?
Soma - ?
Sthunakarna - ?
Tvashta - Twashtar Astra
Varuna - Varunastra
Vayu - Vayuastra
Vishnu - Vaishnava Astra? Many astras are attributed to Vishnu or Vishnu avatars, and also many physical weapons.
Vaisravana - ?
Yama - "Mace of destiny"? (Source: Amar Chitra Katha)

Do you think it would be fruitful to try and complete these pairings or would it make more sense to ask you questions about one astra at a time?

-Matt

Email Communication14

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
9/27/10

to Matt
Matt-

Currently I am on vacation, visiting my parents. I can give a detailed
answer once I am back to my residence.

As a quick note:-

In Mahabharata, a weapon mentioned need not always be a divine astra
(celestial weapon). Only celestial weapons have an associated deity.
Ordinary weapons (ie weapons that do not use any sort of magic /
technology unknown to us) not necessarily are less powerful. For
example asma-varsha (asma = stone; varsha = shower) is a
stone-showering weapon. One possibility is an arrow with an arrow-case
as its head (filled with stones), which is then shot using a bow.
Another possibility is a stone-throwing catapult like weaponry
operated by other (minor) warriors under the command of Arjuna.
(Mahabharata often ignore the assistants of a hero and describe all
action as being performed by the hero himself, during a battle).
Sthuna-Karna (Sthuna = sharp, narrow, pointed; Karna = ear) is an
arrow whose arrow-head looks like a pointed ear. There was also a
Yaksha of the name 'Sthuna-Karna' (probably he had pointed ears)
belonging to the army of Yaksha king Kuvera.

Warm Regards

Email Communication15

Matt Haberfeld
10/8/10

to me
Jijith-

I hope you are enjoying your vacation. :)
I am interested in all of the weapons, equipment, names, etc. in the Mahabharata so it is good to know the ordinary weapons as well. I have a long list of non-divine weapons that I have questions about, but I didn't want to bombard you with everything all at once. If you are still willing to give a more detailed response I would greatly appreciate that when you have time. But if you think it would be more useful to just ask about one astra at a time I can certainly do that as well, whatever works best for you.

Concerning Sthuna-karna, does the arrow have a specific use that makes it particularly special? For instance is it designed to penetrate armor like the English bodkin arrow? (as opposed to a barbed arrow which is more useful for hunting and unarmored targets) Or is it a matter of superior craftsmanship or higher quality metal?
-Matt

Email Communication16

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
10/11/10

to Matt
Matt-

Thanks:)

Yes. The vacation was sweet. I went to the southern state of India called Kerala, known for its greenery and natural beauty. It is my native place.

As I said earlier, I am making articles at AncientVoice website, on warfare and weapons mentioned in Mahabharata. This will start soon after I complete the travel narratives mentioned in Mahabharata. I guess, then you will get comprehensive information on weapons and its usage in ware-fare and possible rational and mythological explanations for each of the weapons. This may however take some time as I have queued things I need to do in my site and it is a long list of activities; quite a long queue! Hence it will be best if we discus one astra at a time.

'Sthuna-karna' is a sharp pointed arrow. It is used to penetrate armor and other body defenses as well as heavy weapons hurled by opponents. There is a person named Susruta, who was skilled in Ayurveda. He performed cataract surgery as early as 800 BC. One of the instruments he possessed to pierce the body was named Sthuna-karna. I guess it is the variant of the same instrument a harder version (may be hardened into steel) that was used by archers in the form of Sthunakarna weapon. The weapon has a tip as narrow as a needle but is very strong as it can even break a mace hurled by an opponent.

Regards

Email Communication17

Matt Haberfeld
10/11/10

to me
Jijith-

Kerala looks like a wonderful place, I would love to visit there one day. I have been a contractor my entire life, so I never have vacation days or paid time off. It makes it hard for me to travel, but it is something I would certainly like to do. I understand your priorities, I have the same problem with my research; so many things to do! I look forward to reading your articles and if there is anything I can do to help do not hesitate to ask.

I think I have most of the important information concerning Agni Astra, but I just want to check with you and make sure that I didn't miss anything. My questions are:

1) Is the information below correct?
2) Did I miss any notable or important uses of the astra in the MBH or other works?
3) I am assuming that "Agni", "Agneya", and "Agniya" are all the same. Please let me know if this is not the case. Are there slight differences in the meaning depending on how the word is used?


Agni Astra (Agneya Astra, Agneyastra, Agniyastra) - Fire astra of Agni, used by Drona and Arjuna.
Presiding Deity: Agni, the god of fire
Weapon's Effect: The weapon discharged would emit flames inextinguishable through normal means.
Source: http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/1043/1/The-Brahmastra-and-Other-Divine-Weapons-in-the-Puranas/Page1.html

Bharata knew the Agni Astra in the Ramayana.

Drona knew the Agniyastra in the Mahabharata. He also received all of Rama's weapons and knowledge of astras (section 131).
Source: Mahabharata Adi Parva Section 131 - "Before now Bharadwaja of great prowess and the foremost of those possessing a knowledge of arms, had communicated to the illustrious Agnivesa, a knowledge of the weapon called Agneya. O foremost one of Bharata's race, the Rishi (Agnivesa) sprung from fire now communicated the knowledge of that great weapon to Drona the son of his preceptor."

Arjuna used the Agneyastra during a demonstration of skill.

Source: Mahabharata Adi Parva section 137 - "By the Agneya weapon, he created fire, and by the Varuna weapon he created water, by the Vayavya weapon, he created air, and by the Parjanya weapon he created clouds. And by the Bhauma weapon, he created land, and by the Parvatya weapon, he brought mountains into being. By the Antardhana weapon all these were made to disappear."

Arjuna traded the knowledge of the Agneyastra to the Gandharva Angaraparna in exchange for 100 Gandharva horses.
Source: Mahabharata Adi Parva section 172


-Matt

Email Communication18

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
10/13/10

to Matt
Matt-

Agni", "Agneya", and "Agniya" are same when used for referring a celestial weapon. However there are subtle differences in word meanings:- 'Agni' means 'fire'. Agneya means '(made) of fire'. This is based on Sanskrit grammar where adjectives like Agneya are created out of nouns like Agni. When someone say in English Agni-weapon or Agni-Astra it actually means Agneya-weapon (or Agneyastra), which is the correct form as per Sanskrit grammar.

Agneyastras can be interpreted as fire-arms. Agnivesa was an authority in the use of firearms. Some references indicate Agastya was the teacher of Agnivesa. Thus we have one source of knowledge of Agneyastra like this:- Agastya > Agnivesa > Drona > Arjuna. Besides this, the Devas are another source of this weapon.

Agniya is a variant of Agneya, due to spelling changes as Sanskrit words are written in English.

Regards

Matt Haberfeld
10/13/10

to me
Jijith-

Thank you, that was very informative! Let me move on to Aindraastra. How is "Aindra Astra" different from "Indra Astra"? (I've actually never seen it written that way and I want to understand why) Is there any more information about the weapon other than is brings a shower of arrows from the sky? I cannot seem to find a lot of information on it other than what is at: Indiadivine.org:

Aindraastra (Aindra Astra) - Presiding Deity: Indra, the god of weather
Weapon's Effect: Would bring about a shower of arrows from the sky.

and a few sources in the MBH:

In the Mahabharata, Bhishma used the Aindraastra against King Salya when taking the daughters of the king of Kasi on behalf of the king Vichitravirya.
Source: Mahabharata Adi Parva, Section 102 - "Then that first of men, Bhishma, the son of Santanu, fighting for the sake of those damsels, slew with the Aindra weapon the noble steeds of his adversary."

Used by Arjuna and Satyaki on the 7th day of the Kurukshetra War.

Anything you could add would be greatly appreciated!

-Matt

Email Communication19

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
10/17/10

to Matt
Matt-

Aidra is a similar derivation from Indra; Aindra meaning of Indra. If used as Indra-Astra or as Aindra-Astra, it means the Astra of Indra.

Aindraastra's use is in bringing shower of arrows from sky as you mentioned. I have not see other use of it, though sometimes people mistake it for Parjanyastra which bring a shower of rain from the sky.

I am recently troubled with a cyber-attack on my site by some miscreants. This is really painful. Could you tell me if you are facing any trouble in accessing my site?

Regards

Email Communication20

Matt Haberfeld
10/17/10

to me
Jijith-

I am not having any problems accessing your site right now. What did they try to do?

-Matt

Email Communication21

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
10/18/10

to Matt
Matt-

They tried to add malware into my site. The attack came from some site named pocketfulofresources.com, environgreensavings.org. If you have web-sites, beware of these web site.

Regards

Email Communication22

Matt Haberfeld
10/18/10

to me
Jijith-

I am sorry to hear that and I hope they did not succeed in damaging your site. Let me know if there's anything I can do.
The next astra on my list I don't know anything about, it is Bhauma Astra. The kind of things I would like to know are:

What does "Bhauma" mean? Are there any alternative spellings?
Which deity presides over the astra?
Who knew the Astra? (I know Arjuna had knowledge of it.)
What does it do? I believe it creates earth or land?
Was it used during the Mahabharata or Ramayana?

Thanks again for the help.

-Matt

Email Communication23

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
10/19/10

to Matt
Matt-

They could malign 8 out of 11659 pages in my site with some mal-ware. With the help of Google Web Master tool i removed them and it is all right now.

Bhauma is derived from the word Bhumi meaning Earth, or land. Bhauma (of Earth).

This is mentioned only in Mahabharata as far as I know. It is used to create land. It is not known which deity presides over it but by meaning I guess the Goddess Earth (Bhumi Devi) is its presiding diety.

Regards

Email Communication24

Matt Haberfeld
10/20/10

to me
Jijith-

Glad to hear that your site is all right. I can't believe how much content you have, my sites are typically 400-700 pages.
Ok, the next astra on my list is "Garudastra" which is mentioned on wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_mythology
However, it is not a hyperlink and there is no article about it, and I haven't seen it anywhere else. Can you tell me anything about it? (same questions)

Which deity presides over the astra? (Garuda, I assume)
Who knew the Astra?
What does it do?
Was it used during the Mahabharata or Ramayana? Or any other texts?

Thanks,
—Matt

Email Communication25

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
10/24/10

to Matt
Matt-

Garuda presides over this weapon.
This weapon is not mentioned in Mahabharata. In Ramayana, Rama is mentioned as using Garudastra to defend Nagastras. (the tribes of Garudas were opposed to the tribes of Nagas)

Nagastra:- the snake weapon. Naga means snake and Garuda means hawk in simple terms.

These were also used as names for ordinary arrows. Winged arrows are sometimes termed as Garudastra, while the arrows with its head looking like the hood of a snake is called Nagastra. Arrows with fatal snake-poison applied on its head was also sometimes called Nagastra. The wings of the winged arrows was designed for increasing the aerodynamic lift, enabling the arrow to travel longer distance and wings at the head of the arrow was design to intercept and cut the opponent's arrows easily.
'
Regards

Email Communication26

Matt Haberfeld
10/25/10

to me
Jijith-

Two for the price of one, and great information! The next astra on my list is called Mahendrastra which I believe means "Great Indra's Astra". Please correct me if I am mistaken. I found the name from this site: http://knowlord.blogspot.com/2009/02/weapons-astras.html
but there is no information about the astra other than it may have something to do with Arjuna. Are you familiar with it?

Also, since you have been instrumental in helping me understand these astras, would you like to be credited on the articles and if so, how? I can put a sentence at the bottom of each article stating that it was written with the help of Jijith Nadumuri Ravi from Ancient Voice, or just the link, or just mention your name or site in the news feed when I post them. Let me know what would be preferable to you.

-Matt

Email Communication27

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
10/27/10

to Matt
Matt-

Mahendrastra is the same as Indrastra / Aindra weapon. Indra is often called 'Mahendra', (Maha = great; Indra = the best one) meaning 'the great Indra'.

Good to know that I was able to do some help to you. 'Jijith Nadumuri Ravi from Ancient Voice' would be just fine. This has become my online address for quite some time.

Regards

Email Communication28

Matt Haberfeld
10/28/10

to me
Jijith-

Here is another one I know almost nothing about. It is Meghastra, and I believe it causes darkness of some kind? I have in my notes that it was mention in the Karna Parva, section 3 but I wasn't sure if the darkness was caused by clouds blotting out the sun or if it caused blindness (physical blindness or an illusion) or something else entirely. All the same questions if you know the answers:

What does "Megha" mean? Are there any alternative spellings?
Which deity presides over the astra?
Who knew the Astra?
What does it do?
Was it used during the Mahabharata or Ramayana?

A friend is staying at my place for the rest of the week so I will probably be out of contact for a few days. Thanks for all your help and I'll be back next week.

-Matt

Email Communication29

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
11/7/10

to Matt
Matt-

Megha means 'cloud'. No alternative spellings noticed. I could not locate the passage mentioning Meghastra at section 3 Karna Parva. Could you quote the citation?

Meghastra could be used as a synonym for Parjanyastra (Par-janya-astra; the astra that causes clouds, rain and thunder) when described as a rain creating astra. In this case Indra would be its presiding deity; also in this case, darkness caused due to the production of dark clouds makes more sense rather than physical blindness or illusory blindness.

There is a similar sounding astra named Amoghastra. Amogha means 'invincible'. Skanda (Kartikeya) presides over it.

Regards

Email Communication30

Matt Haberfeld
11/12/10

to me
Jijith-

It appears this is the link where I found the term: http://www.telugubhakti.com/telugupages/Monthly/Mahabharat/content803.htm
I'm not sure about the accuracy of the passage as I have not read that far yet on the Sacred Texts version.

"Arjuna hit the charioteer of Karna and his horses and launched Agneyastra against karna. Karna launched Varunastra, to nullify Agneyastra. Again, Arjuna launched Meghastra upon Karna. Under the influence of Meghastra, the entire sky was filled with dark clouds and darkness plunged in. To neutralize that, Arjuna launched Anilastra (Vavyastra). The terrible wind emanated by Vavaystra shattered the clouds and the Sun was visible. Arjuna launched Indra Sakti upon Karna which was nullified by Karna."

Does that sound similar to Parjanyastra?

I believe we spoke about Amoghastra earlier when we were talking about Sakti. We talked about it being possibly "drastic" or "infallible". Does it also mean invincible? Would it be more likely to be Sakti or related to this astra? Or were you just commenting about how similar they sound?

-Matt

Email Communication31

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
11/14/10

to Matt
Matt-

Meghastra seems to be same as Parjanyastra by meaning; by pronunciation it is close to Amoghastra. From your description and citation, Meghastra looks like Parjyanyastra itself.

Hence I would prefer to equate Meghastra with Parjanyastra. I could not locate the word Meghastra in Mahabharata or in abridged versions of Ramayana available with me.

The total number of distinct celestial weapons will be less than the total number of names by which they are addressed since the same astra will be mentioned by different names. Names are created using Sanskrit Grammar based on the attributes of the astras, their usage or their presiding deities

Regards

Email Communication32

Matt Haberfeld
11/15/10

to me
Jijith-

Good information. Like I have said before, I want to be as thorough as I can, but more importantly I don't want to post anything that is incorrect.
Does Parjanyastra have a presiding deity or any notable uses in the epics? The only quotation I have is Arjuna's demonstration of skill in the Adi Parva. What does "Parjanya" mean?

-Matt

Email Communication33

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
11/16/10

to Matt
Matt-

Par-janya (par = things related to rain; janya = generating) means that which generate rain / rain-clouds / thunder-clouds / rainy weather etc.
Its deity is Indra, the lord of the rains.

Regads

Email Communication34

Matt Haberfeld
11/17/10

to me
Jijith-

Next on the list is Mohini Astra. I've only seen it mentioned in a few places, and here is the information I have on it:

Mohini astra:
Presiding Deity: Mohini, Visnu avatar
Weapon's Effect: Dispel any form of maya or sorcery in the vicinity.

I am not familiar with Mohini at all, so I have all the same questions:

What does Mohini mean?
Who knew the Astra?
What does it do? The weapon's effect description above does not really tell me anything.
Was it used during the epics?

Thank you for your continued assistance.

Email Communication35

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
11/19/10

to Matt
Matt-

I consider Mohini astra as a later addition (Puranic addition), not as authentic as Agneya astra or Pasupata astra mentioned in Mahabharata and Ramayana. But if we consider all the astras to be pure fiction with no historical existence, then yes, Mohini astra need to be counted as one of the Astras.

Mohini is a female Avatar (Incarnation) of the main trinity God 'Vishnu'. She seduced the enemies of the Devas, viz. the Asuras and recovered the substance of immortality (Amrita) from them.

She seduced Asuras using her 'Maya' (which could mean sorcery, illusion, the unreality of the world etc). Mohini is not mentioned in epics as an Astra. However Mohini incarnation is mentioned. Mohini astra seems to be the invention of authors of Puranas (not as authentic as the epics, and contains more fictional content).

Regards

Email Communication36

Matt Haberfeld
11/24/10

to me
Jijith-

Interesting, when I read that part of the Mahabharata I did not get the full context of what was going on. This makes a lot more sense. Let me as about Naga Paasha. Paasha is a type of lasso, correct? Is this considered an astra or an actual physical lasso? I have also seen it written as Nagapasha (only one 'a') and Naga-parsha, are these all acceptable?

I read that the lasso would "bind the target in coils of living venomous snakes." Does the lasso transform into snakes when it is used, or is it an illusion? What is the lasso itself made out of? Would the snakes bite and kill you or is there a way to get out of it?

As far as usage, I read that in the Ramayana, it was used against Lord Rama and Lakshmana by Indrajit. Satrughna also knew the astra and used it against Lava and Kusa but they knew the Ramayana so well that they countered it. How would something like this be countered? Are there any other uses in the epics to your knowledge? Thanks for the help and have a nice weekend. :)

Email Communication37

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
11/27/10

to Matt
Matt-

Nagapasa and Nagapaasa are same. Nagaparsa seems to be error. The 'aa' indicate that the sound is elongated, a feature not found in English but found in Sanskrit and almost all of Indian languages like Malayalam.

Naga = snake, an ancient snake-worshiping tribe, the current naga-tribe in the south and east of india;; paasha = rope, elongated / coiled objects. Thus it can be equated to a lasso. One weapon found in historical times equated to naga-pasa is an elongated sword called 'Urumi' It is used by Kalari-payattu martial-art-fighters in Kerala. Some of these martial-art-fighters claim to be descended from the Naga tribe.

Puranas often equate Naga Pasa with a snake or describe the former transforming to the latter. During Arjuna-Karna battle mentioned in Mahabharata a Naga-astra is equated to a Naga warrior named Aswasena, to the effect that the astra is mentioned as transforming to the Naga and vice versa. We also see Aswasena described both as a human warrior and as a snake.

I consider Naga-Pasa weapon and Naga-astra o be different entities. Naga-Pasa is the Urumi or the elongated double edged sword and Naga-Astra is snake-poisoned arrows. Both are deadly weapons. Both were used by the Naga tribe. Both are also listed among the celestial weapons.

Both thus has a divine (celestial) and physical (rational) explanation.

Garuda-astra is often consider as the defense or offence against any Naga weapon (remember the Naga x Garuda opposition).

Regards

Email Communication38

Matt Haberfeld
12/1/10

to me
Jijith-

I have heard of the urumi but I never would have equated it with a pasa. Varuna is also known for using the pasa, is that also an urumi?
I have been going alphabetically through my list but I missed one; Bhargava Astra. I have all the usual questions about it. :)

Bhargavastra - (karna got from Parshurama?)
How did he get it? Does Arjuna know it as well? (I don't think he does)
What does it do?
Who is the presiding deity and are there any restrictions on its use or passing it down to others?

Thank you for your help!

-Matt

Email Communication39

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
12/9/10

to Matt
Matt-

Bhargavastra: This is also not mentioned in Mahabharata or Ramayana. This also seems to be coming from the 'Puranas'. I give more weight to epics and less to Puranas and also not an expert on the Puranic narrations.

Urumi-pasa connection is referred in some of the ancient manuals preserved in Kerala. Kerala, as I mentioned earlier, is an ancient name mentioned in Mahabharata which is still preserved as the name of the modern state of India. It also contains many ancient traditions of ancient India preserved intact like the ancient martial arts- Kalari Payattu and ancient system of medicine 'Ayurveda'. Hence I tend to give weight to the Urumi - Naga-Pasa connection. Both are used to bind and mortally would an enemy; extremely lethal. The connection of some tribes in Kerala to 'Naga' (lineage / Naga worship) too reinforces the connection. Varuna-Asura-Bhargava-Kerala connection is another factor linking urumi with Varuna-Pasa.

Regards

Email Communication40

Matt Haberfeld
12/9/10

to me
Jijith-

Bhargava Astra was mentioned here: http://thekarna.blogspot.com/2010/08/arjun-divya-astras.html
I have not been able to find a literary source for it, I will have to keep looking. What does "Bhargava" mean?

May I ask you about Parvata Astra? Does Parvata mean "mountain"? I don't know anything else about it.
Does it have a presiding deity?
What is the weapon's effect?
Was it used in the Mahabharata or Ramayana?
How is it different from Bhauma Astra?

Thank you.

-Matt

Email Communication41

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
12/12/10

to Matt
Matt-

Bhargava is a derivative of Bhrigu, the name of a sage. The descendants of sage Bhrigu are called the Bhargavas, most prominent among them being the sage Sukra aka Usanas (the chief priest of the Asuras) and the sage Parasu Rama aka Bhargava Rama.

I could see some Puranic narrations describing a divine astra associating it with Parasurama (Parasu Rama). He was one among the masters of archery.

Mahabharata mentions about a tribe named Parvatas (Himachal, Uttaranchal, Nepal region) who participated in the Kurukshetra War. It also mentions about their weapons (Parvata weapons / Parvata astra) made of stones or sometimes simply bing stones or huge boulders. But it is not mentioning about a divine Parvata astra.

Parvata means mountain. The Parvata tribe lived in the mountainous terrains of Himalayas. Siva's wife Parvati belonged to this tribe.

Regards

Email Communication42

Matt Haberfeld
Jan 8

to me
Jijith-

Thank you for the explanations. I have been very busy over the past month so I did not have any time to devote towards this project, but I have not forgotten it. Do you have any idea where I might be able to find information about these astras that may be from the Puranas or other sources? The next astra on my list is Paurandara Astra. I have this quote from MBH:
Source: Mahabharata Adi Parva section 192 - "By the grace of my preceptor I (Arjuna) have become accomplished in the Brahma and the Paurandara weapons."

I have no other information about it though. Anything you could tell me would be most appreciated.

-Matt

Email Communication43

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Jan 11

to Matt
Hi Matt-

Nice to see your email after a long time. I too took up another job recently which gives me very less time to update my site.

On your question:-

Paurandara means 'of Purandara' or 'related to Purandara. Purandara is a synonym of Indra. Purandara means the one who destroyed the cities (probably the cities of Indra's enemies).

Hence Paurandara astra is same as Aindra astra.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/ (This site contains English and Sanskrit versions of some of the Puranas).

Regards

Email Communication44

Matt Haberfeld
Jan 12

to me
Jijith-

What do you do for a living? I am a technical writer in the pharmaceutical industry, I write the documents that FDA looks at when they conduct audits. It's not very exciting, but it pays the bills. :)

The next astra I have a question about is Pragnastra. Here is the quote:

Source: Mahabharata Vana Parva section 20 - "And then, O mighty king, the dome of heaven blazed as with a hundred suns, and, O son of Kunti with one hundred moons, and thousands and ten thousands of stars! And then none could ascertain whether it was day or night, or distinguish the points of the horizon. And, becoming bewildered, I fixed on my bowstring the weapon called Pragnastra. And, O son of Kunti, the weapon went like unto flakes of pure cotton blown away by the winds! And a great fight took place, calculated to make the down on one's body stand on end. And O best of monarchs, having regained, light, I again fought with the enemy!'"

Does it have a presiding deity?
Any special rules on obtaining or using the astra?
What is the weapon's effect? The passage is a bit confusing because it talks about how the light was so bright as to be blinding but in the last sentence he "regains" the light. Does it dispel an illusion or create light or dispel darkness?

Thanks,
-Matt

Email Communication45

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Jan 18

to Matt
Matt- I work as a software professional in an Indo-US MNC. Now daily
commute time is reducing my spare time. Prajna means intellect,
mind,conciousness etc so this astra is same as sammohana affecting the
mind. regards jijith. (typing using a mobile phone)

Email Communication46

Matt Haberfeld
Jan 18

to me
Jijith-

Pragna and Prajna are the same? Is one more commonly acceptable?
I am a little confused here. I thought that Pramohana/Sammohana were the same, but Prajna was used to counter them:
Source: MBH Bhishma Parva section 77: "Taking up then the weapon called Prajna, he neutralised the Pramohana weapon (that Dhrishtadyumna had shot). Then thy sons those mighty car-warriors, when their senses returned, once more proceeded to battle with Bhima and Prishata's son."

Would it be fair to say that Pramohana/Sammohana causes confusion and Pragna/Prajna restores the mind? Is Prajna Astra a purely defensive weapon?

Sorry to hear that your spare time has been cut short. Take as much time as you need to answer, there is no rush on my end.

-Matt

Email Communication47

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Jan 27

to Matt
Matt-

Prajna and Pragna are same. In Sanskrit it is written as " प्रजना " but in English these alternate spellings exist. Prajna is more correct.

You are right on Prajna being counter to Pramohana / Sammohana. Prajna revitalizes your senses while Pramohana / Sammohana deludes them. Both affects the mind. Prajna astra is used to counter Pramohana / Sammohana and hence is a countering / defensive weapon. I have not seen it used other than to counter mind deluding weapons like Pramohana / Sammohana.

Regards

Email Communication48

Matt Haberfeld
Jan 28

to me
Jijith-

I was going to ask about Prajnastra next but we have taken care of that. Instead I will ask about Raudra Astra. What does "Raudra" mean (is it different from Rudra?) and what can you tell me about it? I have only this quote which is quite long:

Source: Mahabharata Vana Parva section 172 - "Thereupon collecting (my energies) in fight, I (bowed down) unto that god of gods, Raudra, and saying, 'May welfare attend on all beings!' I fixed that mighty weapon which, celebrated under the name of Raudra, is the destroyer of all foes. Then I beheld a male person having three heads, nine eyes, three faces, and six arms. And his hair was flaming like fire or the sun. And, O slayer of foes, for his dress, he had mighty serpents, putting out their tongues. And saying, O best of the Bharatas, the dreadful and eternal Raudra, I being free from fear, set it on the Gandiva; and, bowing unto the three-eyed Sarva of immeasurable energy, let go (the weapon), with the object of vanquishing those foremost of the Danavas, O Bharata. And, O lord of men, as soon as it had been hurled, there appeared on the scene by thousands, forms of deer, and of lions, and of tigers, and of bears and of buffaloes, and of serpents, and of kine, and of sarabhas, and of elephants, and of apes in multitudes, and of bulls, and of boars, and of cats, and of dogs, and of spectres, and of all the Bhurundas, and of vultures, and of Garudas, of chamaras, and of all the leopards, and of mountains, and of seas, and of celestials, and of sages, and of all the Gandharvas, and of ghosts with the Yakshas, and of the haters of the gods, (Asuras), and of the Guhyakas in the field, and of the Nairitas and of elephant-mouthed sharks, and of owls, and of beings having the forms of fishes and horses, and of beings bearing swords and various other weapons, and of Rakshasas wielding maces and clubs. And on that weapon being hurled all the universe became filled with these as well as many others wearing various shapes. And again and again wounded by beings of various sights with (pieces of) flesh, fat, bones, and marrow on their persons,some having three heads, and some four tusks, and some four mouths, and some four arms,the Danavas met with destruction."

Thanks for your continued help.
-Matt

Email Communication49

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Feb 2

to Matt
Matt-

Raudra means 'belonging to Rudra' or 'of Rudra'. Rudra is a synonym of Siva. Thus Raudra Astra can be a reference to any of the Siva's weapons including Pasupata.

Regards

Email Communication50

Matt Haberfeld
Feb 4

to me
Jijith-

Congratulations on your article, that is very exciting!

I know that we have talked about Pasupata quite a bit, and maybe there is something that I missed in our earlier conversations. I was under the impression that it had an effect like a nuclear warhead similar to Brahmasira. But in the quoted passage Raudra Astra seems to summon all manner of beasts and monsters to destroy one's foes, which would make sense based on the name Pasupata ("belonging to the Lord of the Beasts"). Would that be a more accurate description of Pasupata's effect when it is unleashed? Is that why it could destroy the whole universe if not properly focused? I imagine that the beasts and monsters would run amok if they were summoned without a target. It would be great if you could clarify this for me. Thank you and have a great weekend!

-Matt

Email Communication51

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Mar 3

to Matt
Matt-

The deity of the astra is 'Pasupati' and hence the lord of the beasts, but I am not sure if that attribute can be passed on to the astra itself. The effect of the Pasupata is great annihilation like that of a nuclear bomb. The appearance of the beasts seems to be due to the agitation of the souls of the living beings since the astra is about to wipe off several life forms along with the targeted enemies. Mother Nature never like such weapons to be unleashed and so she will cry or register her protest upon its unleashing by appearing as the numerous beasts etc to the mind of the invoker of the weapon, in this case Arjuna. This is also why it is advised that one should never unleash such weapons.

To support this view note that in the passage, not only the beasts but also the .. mountains, and of seas, and of celestials, and of sages, and of all the Gandharvas, and of ghosts with the Yakshas .. are mentioned as appearing.

Regards

Email Communication52

Matt Haberfeld
Mar 4

to me
Jijith-

Thank you for clearing that up and for continuing to help me with the research. I remember you mentioned saiva astra but I am not familiar with it. You put it on the list of the most powerful astras:

I suggest you can also divide list of astras into three or more categories:-

Most powerful Astras

Brahma
Brahmasira
Pasupata
Vaishava
Saiva

Can you tell me more about it? Thank you.

-Matt

Email Communication53

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Apr 18

to Matt
Matt-

Saiva-Astra is a collective name for all the astras attributed to Siva. I guess I was wrong in specifying it as a separate astra. Pasupata 'one of the Saiva astra' and 'the main Saiva astra'. The usage 'Saiva astra' is seen in some Puranas especially the Saiva-Puranas. See my article :- http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/article:comparison-of-ancient-indian-texts .

Regards

Email Communication54

Matt Haberfeld
Apr 19

to me
Jijith-

It is very good to hear from you! I was worried that you had become too busy to continue our correspondence. I had not seen the page you linked to me before, I'm not sure how I missed it. My english teacher in high school always went on and on about how the Iliad and the Odyssey were the largest epics in history. It still makes me laugh. :)

There is a website called www.indiadivine.org that has an article about astras, however some of them I do not recognize from the Mahabharata, such as:

Surya astra:
Presiding Deity: Surya, the sun god
Weapon's Effect: Create a dazzling light that would dispel any darkness about.
Source: http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/330-brahmastra-other-divine-weapons-puranas.html

Was this used in any of the texts you are familiar with?

I hope all is well!

-Matt

Email Communication55

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Apr 25

to Matt
Matt-

Surya Astra: No mention in Mahabharata; Original source could be one of the Puranas. The description about the Astra seems to be correct.

Regards

Email Communication56

Matt Haberfeld
Apr 26

to me
Jijith-

Another astra on the same website:

Twashtar astra:
Presiding Deity: Twashtri, the heavenly builder
Weapon's Effect: When used against a group of opponents (such as an army), would cause them to mistake each other for enemies and fight each other.
Source: http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/330-brahmastra-other-divine-weapons-puranas.html

Was this used in any of the texts you are familiar with? I have not been able to find any other source. Thanks for your help!

-Matt

Email Communication57

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
May 2

to Matt
Matt-

Thwastr / Twashtar is the architect employed by Indra, who later came to be known as Viswakarma and who built the celestial cities. The info about the deity seems to be correct but the weapon's effect not so. But I don't have the original sources with me to check its validity.

Regards

Email Communication58

Matt Haberfeld
May 2

to me
Jijith-

This is good to know. Would it be possible for you to check your sources at some point and get back to me? Or let me know what source you plan to look into? If it is something that I can get a hold of I would be happy to help.

Even the wikipedia page has the weapon effect that I sent you in the email: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_%28weapon%29
If this is incorrect I would like to be able to fix it.

-Matt

Email Communication59

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Jun 5

to Matt
Matt-

I am planning to look these texts after my work on the four Vedas. Meanwhile you can look on one book named Vishnu Purana, that is there in www.sacred-text.com.

This is a Purana.

I am yet to get complete texts of other Puranas. I have with me now only summary books which is not enough for this kind of analysis.

I guess if there are errors in wikipedia you should correct it. I do not rely on wikipedia much in matters of ancient India and ancient Indian books as often the information is very poor or not correct. Wikiipedi is accurate in the contemporary history of India though.

Regards

Email Communication60

Matt Haberfeld
Jun 9

to me
Jijith-

I would love to correct any false information that I can, that is part of the reason for my research. In the case of Twashtar Astra I'm not really sure what the correct function of the weapon is. We can put this off for now, I have much more reading to do. :)

Let me ask you about Vajra Astra:

Vajra astra:
Presiding Deity: Indra
Weapon's Effect: Target would be struck with bolts of lightning (vajra referring to Indra's thunderbolt).
Source: http://www.indiadivine.org/articles/330-brahmastra-other-divine-weapons-puranas.html

Is this different from Vajra? My understanding is that Vajra is a physical weapon that you can hold in your hand, not an astra. Is there also an astra? Is the weapon's effect accurate? Was the weapon ever used in the texts?

Thank you for your help with all of this. I am almost finished with my first pass of the astras. The only ones remaining are varuna astra, vayu astra, and visoshana and then I will go back and make sure that I didn't miss anything during our conversations.

-Matt

Email Communication61

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Jun 10

to Matt
Matt-

Remember some of my earlier emails on the real meaning of astra?. In its materialistic manifestation, it is projectile weapon and anything that can be thrown in a projectile is an Astra, including hand-held weapons that can be thrown to attack enemies (Vajra included).

Regards

Email Communication62

Matt Haberfeld
Jun 10

to me
Jijith-

I do remember you telling me that. I guess the next question is, can vajra astra be invoked without the physical weapon that was created from the spine of Dadhichi? What does the physical weapon itself do if one didn't know the mantra to invoke vajra astra? Or are they inextricably entwined together?

I know that the story of vajra is in the Vana Parva section 100, but is there any other mention of its use in the texts? Is it something that can be taught to mortals or is it only something that Indra possess? Have a good weekend!

-Matt

Email Communication63

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Jun 13

to Matt
Matt-

Yes. Astra is independent of the physical media / weapons through which it is used. However there can be some popular physical weapon in which a particular astra is invoked, though this association is not permanent.

Remember Rama's invocation of divine astra's into an ordinary straw!

This is the case with Vajra as well. It is often used by Indra through the physical weapon created from the spine of Dadhichi. But it can be used independent of this physical weapon.

Approximately speaking astra is like the software or Operating System (OS) and the physical weapon like the hardware - laptops, PCs, mobile phones, hand held devices etc.

There are several references I heave read in Puranas where Vajra is used without Dadhichi' bones, like pure lightning etc. Now I am not able to locate them though in internet, but I am sure you will be able to find such narrations.

It can be taught to the mortals as mantra invocations like any astra but I have not come across the usage of Vajra by any one other than Indra.

Regards

Email Communication64

Matt Haberfeld
Jun 14

to me
Jijith-

Thank you for clearing that up for me. Does vajra (the physical weapon created from the spine of Dadhichi) have any innate powers separate from the astra? Or does it make it easier to invoke the astra or make it more powerful or anything like that?

I also have some translation questions for a few astras if you don't mind. One of the astras of Vishnu is written as Vaishnava Astra. Does that mean "of Vishnu" or "pervaded by Vishnu" or something to that effect?

Vayu Astra also has several alternatives including Vayavastra and Vayavya Astra. Do these mean "of Vayu" or something like that? I also came across "Anilastra", is that the same as Vayu Astra?

I also came across "Visoshana" which is one of Indra's astras.
Source: Mahabharata Vana Parva section 170 - "Thereupon, I discharged that celestial weapon which I had learnt from Indra—even the dreadful and flaming Visoshana: and by that the water was dried up."

Is this the same as Aindra Astra or a different astra? I don't remember any of Indra's astras being related to fire in any way.

Sorry if this is a lot, if the answers are complicated we can talk about them one at a time. Thank you again for your continued help with this and have a nice weekend!

-Matt

Email Communication65

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Jun 26

to Matt
Matt-

From the narration vajra (the physical weapon created from the spine of Dadhichi) - was indeed very strong. My alternate theory is that it was some animal bone of some pre-historical mammal, like Airavata, which is some sort of Mammoth.

Vaishnava asta - astra of Vishnu; Viashnava means related to vishnu.

Same about Vayavya astra, astra of Vayu, Vayavya means related to vayu

Anila is a synonym of Vayu; so Anila astra is vayavya astra

Vishoshana is a different astra than Vajra. Any astra of Indra comes under the definition of Aindra Astra. This Vishoshana is one among the many Aindra Astras.

Vishoshana, means that which dries up.

Regards

Email Communication66

Matt Haberfeld
Jun 27

to me
Jijith-

Great stuff, thank you for your help! I have reviewed my notes and I am very close to being finished with my research on the astras. There are only two passages that I am still having trouble with. Here is one of them:

"Then taking Sthunakarna, and Varuna and Salava, and Asmavarsha weapons, I assailed him, profusely showering shafts."
Source: Mahabharata, Vana Parva section 166

I think we discussed that Asmavarsha means stone shower and could refer to a catapult or siege weapon that throws rocks. Were slings used in ancient India? I also remember you saying that deeds performed by the soldiers under the command of a hero were attributed to the hero. So this may not be an astra.

We also talked about sthunakarna meaning sharp ear and referring to arrows with pointed heads shaped like ears. Also not an astra.

Could you tell me anything about Varuna and Salava weapons in this context? Thanks.

-Matt

Email Communication67

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Jul 13

to Matt
Matt-

Varuna is a god like Indra with equal popularity, especially in the Vedas, as you might know already. Here the astra attributed to Varuna is meant by the word 'Varuna'. I guess we have already discussed one other weapon of Varuna named Varuna-paasa (the rope-like weapon of Varuna akin to Urumi used in Kerala, Kalarippayattu).

Recently I have created following new wikis at ancient Voice for Vedic texts, that precedes Mahabharata. It contains plenty of references to principal gods like Indra, Agni, Vayu, Vishnu, Mitra and Varuna.
Atharvaveda Wiki 2 Jul 2011, 20:28 GMT+0530
Samaveda Wiki 30 May 2011, 16:03 GMT+0530
Rigveda Wiki 14 May 2011, 12:05 GMT+0530

'Salava' is a less known weapon. There was a group of ancient people called Salabhas. The spelling Salava could be an alternate of Salabha, (like Subala > Suvala; Sarabha > Sarava etc). In this case, this could be the weapon of Salabhas. I do not know anything more about this weapon.

I wish the best for your research.

Regards

Email Communication68

Matt Haberfeld
Jul 13

to me
Jijith-

Thank you for the clarification, we did talk about Varuna-paasa. I have one last passage that may pertain to astras that I have not been able to figure out completely:

"And Arjuna, having dwelt for five years in the abode of him of a thousand eyes, and having from that lord of celestials obtained all the celestial weapons,—such as those of Agni, of Varuna, of Soma, of Vayu, of Vishnu, of Indra, of Pasupati, of Brahma, of Parameshthi, of Prajapati, of Yama, of Dhata, of Savita, of Tvashta, and of Vaisravana; and having bowed down to and gone round him of a hundred sacrifices, and taken his (Indra's) permission, cheerfully came to the Gandhamadana."
Source: Mahabharata, Vana Parva section 163

We have certainly talked about a lot of these astras, but a few of them I could not identify.

Agni - Agneyastra
Brahma - Brahmastra
Dhata - ?
Indra - Aindrastra, Vajra, Visoshana

Parameshthi - ?
Pasupati - Pasupata
Prajapati - ?
Savita - ?
Soma - ?
Tvashta - Twashtar Astra
Varuna - Varunastra
Vayu - Vayvayastra
Vishnu - Vaishnava Astra

Vaisravana - ?
Yama - "Mace of destiny"?

Would you be able to tell me what astras if any belong to these names? It occurs to me that they may be other titles for deities I already know in the way that Shiva and Indra can be referred to by several names.

Thank you so much for all your help! I am letting a few close friends proofread my work and then I will put it up on the website.

-Matt

Email Communication69

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Aug 8

to Matt
Matt-

Please find below my comments

Agni - Agneyastra - TRUE
Brahma - Brahmastra - TRUE
Dhata - ? (Dhata and Vidhata are ancient gods - no Astra mentioned as I know, other than in this context)
Indra - Aindrastra, Vajra, Visoshana TRUE
Parameshthi - ? - (Paraameshthi too an ancient God)
Pasupati - Pasupata TRUE
Prajapati - ? - God / Patriarch related to many children)
Savita - ? - same as Surya - sun god - Astra's of sun god apply
Soma - ? - same as Chandra - moon god - Astra's of moon god apply

Tvashta - Twashtar Astra - TRUE
Varuna - Varunastra - TRUE
Vayu - Vayvayastra - TRUE
Vishnu - Vaishnava Astra - TRUE

Vaisravana - ? Vaisravana's Astras
Yama - "Mace of destiny"? Kala - Pasa (rope of death) or Kala Danda (rod of death), other Astras of Yama

Regards

Email Communication70

Matt Haberfeld
Aug 11

to me
Thanks, Jijith!

Can you tell me more about the astras of:

Soma/Chandra
Vaisravana
Yama

I was not aware that they had any astras associated with them.

-Matt

Email Communication71

Jijith Nadumuri Ravi
Sep 2

to Matt
Matt-

Mostly these will be discussed in the Puranas. I have yet to subject most of these texts to deeper analysis. Recently Vishnu Purana is analyzed.

A physical version of Chadra-astra is an arrow with arrow head in the shape of a crescent moon (sickle shaped), which is used to cut the head and arms of the opponents.

Weapons of Vaisravana and Yama: one reference is the one you quoted on their meeting with Arjuna.

More could be found in Ramayana or Vishnu Purana:-

http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/source:ramayana
http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/source:vishnupurana

Regards

Email Communication72

Matt Haberfeld
Sep 2

to me
Jijith -

Thank you so much for all of your help with this. I don't think I have any more questions about astras at this time. I do still have lots of questions about other weapons though. There are so many weapons in the Ramayana that are mentioned only in passing, and no detail is given. Particularly in Bala Kanda 27 and Bala Kanda 56. For instance:

""Oh, Raghu s scion, I will also give two projectile bolts, one called shushka, The Drier and the other aardra, The Drencher, and even the missiles of Pinaka and that of Narayana, the missiles of god Shiva and Narayana, I will give."

Is there any more information on weapons like shushka and aardra? My understanding is that they were created by given to Rama by Vishvamitra, and created by Valmiki. Is there any reason why Valmiki created them? How did they come into Vishvamitra's possession? What makes these weapons special?

There are dozens of weapons like this in the text such as Monster, Punisher, Wrester, Baffler, Bolter, etc. Why are there so many named weapons? Does each one do something slightly different and is that kind of information defined anywhere?

Matt Haberfeld

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