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		<title>Comments for page &quot;De-mystifying Myths&quot;</title>
		<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths</link>
		<description>Posts in the discussion thread &quot;De-mystifying Myths&quot;</description>
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-2624944</guid>
				<title>Analysis of the Myth of Garuda and the Nagas</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-2624944</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2016 12:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Chakrab</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>2837073</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>The description can be viewed in a slightly different manner.</p> <p>Kashyapa is a person whose job is to regenerate Earth and then populate it. So we will find different wives and different progenies including dogs (Sarameya from Sarama), River (Iravati) and so on mentioned at different times.</p> <p>Consider the &quot;Snake&quot; described here as Naga people. The thousand &quot;snakes&quot; are just small but powerful groups of Naga, or may be their kingdom.</p> <p>Same way, the Garuda and Arun are not birds but kingdoms.</p> <p>Same way, Kadru and Vinata etc. are metaphors&#8230;not necessarily a human being.</p> <p>There is another story about Indra and Vayu. Vayu's mother was asked to keep vigil while Vayu was in womb. Somehow she fell asleep. Indra went inside the womb and cut the embryo in 49 pieces. It can be realized as a Kingdom in making&#8230;.jealous Indra divided the people in 49 pieces !</p> <p>The basic thing is, in most places metaphors are being used to make it easy for people to remember. These Itihasa and Purana were for common people. Veda and Upanishads were for learned people. There metaphors are less, but sometimes more cryptic.</p> <p>Without understanding metaphors (which, frankly speaking, most of us do not understand), literal study of any epic will create confusion. It is like a English Professor reading a physics book on Quantum mechanics !</p> <p>regards</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-2080606</guid>
				<title>sun gods car</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-2080606</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2014 07:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Peter Nowak</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1946822</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Dear Sir, I'm new at this forum and find it very enlightening. But let me tell you with all respect, that I don't believe in your &quot;demystifying&quot;. The general reason for that is, that I got another understanding of myth, which is caused in my examination of the content of ancient myths, especially in Platons dialogs. Compare for example the Phaeton myth in Platons Timaios. There you can see, that myth is just a way of passing down real events of ancient times. The way, myth does it, is developed, to keep it better in mind. So to examine myth, you have to distinguish between the mythical form and the content, this form transports.</p> <p>If we apply this on the myth of the chariot of the sun god Surya, it would show us, that the sun was not believed to be stationary but moving. This is because the solar system is part of a spiral arm of our galaxy. The galaxy is rotating, so the solar system as a whole is moving and there are other levels of movement too. The ancient indian people used the picture of the chariot, to point out this fact of the moving sun, while the ancient egyptian people showed the same fact by painting their gods situated in boats.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1938102</guid>
				<title>Re: Original story of Mahabharata</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1938102</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jan 2014 08:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jijith Nadumuri</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>407143</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Today it is very difficult to separate out the core 'Jaya' and the middle layer 'Bhaarata' and the outer layer 'Mahaabhaarata' from the whole corpus of the text. But there are certain information that can help us. The text mentions that 'Jaya' the work of Vyasa contains only 8,000 verses out of the 100,000 verses constituting Mahabharata as we know it. These verses of Jaya will not contain Vyasa as a 'character' within, as he is the author. Jaya is narrated by Sanjaya to Dhritarashtra. All of these conditions are satisfied in a portion of Mahabharata starting from Bhishma parva and ending in Sauptika Parva (book 6 to 10). These are the books dealing with Kurukshetra War- Bhishma, Drona, Karna, Shalya and Sauptika parvas. But the total number of verses in these 5 books adds to around 24,000 verses (23,847). This is because Vaisyampayana, the desciple of Vyasa has contributed verses to Vyasa's core Jaya when he recited it to Janamejaya, the great grandson of Arjuna. This second level expansion of Jaya is called 'Bhaarata' and it is recited by Vaishampayana. Thus roughly we can say:- the cores of book 6 to 10 in which Vyasa himself does not appear as a character is the real 'Jaya' of 8000 verses. The rest of the book 6 to 10 is part of Vaisampayana's expansion. This expanded text is called 'Bhaarata' having 24,000 verses (inclusive of the 8000 verses of Jaya). Portions of Mahabharata where Vaisampayana appears in third person is part of Sauti's expansion now called 'MahaaBhaarata'. There are verses in Mahabharata where even Sauti is mentioned in third person. This means the text expanded even after the life-time of Sauti. I do not now accept any absolute chronology of when each expansion took place and so I am non commital about the Gupta period being the time when the text took its current shape.</p> <p>Creating a Mahabharata text after rejecting what is percieved as later addition will not be a good idea as all these later additions too have information value. It will be a futile excersise like what happened with Bible. A lot of valuable information generated during the formative period of Bible was lost due to such mindless editing and monopolistic views. Traditions which does not fall in line with the majoritarian view were declared herasies. A similar futile exerciese is already done for Mahabharata with the so called 'critical edition of Mahabharata'. Many scholars do not accept the criteria chosen to declare one verse as original and another as later addition.</p> <p>Regarding your question on the glorification of death (and birth) of war heroes on the side of Kauravas (as well as those on the side of the Pandavas):- Many scholars think in this way. Mahabharata text passed through the hands of many people sympathetic to both the sides and a neutral compiler has added all of these versions into the main corpus.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1938007</guid>
				<title>History in Mahabharata</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1938007</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jan 2014 04:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jijith Nadumuri</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>407143</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I agree with your comments generally but no verse in Mahabharata can be ignored even if it is part of a myth. This is because every verse of this text represent a time and a piece of encoded information in our ancient past about which we do not have any other history or any other source of knowledge. We can however set aside certain verses to focus on the verses which have greater historical sense but need to analyse even mythological verses to extract philosophical and cultural elements from those myths. Many myths in Mahabharata appear as abusrd and do not have any historical sense. This is because those myths are not embedding any historical information BUT they are embedding astronomical, geological and sometimes mathematical information. For example Mahabharata mentions that Vasista tried to commit suicide by jumping into Sarasvati and the river then broke into hundred pieces forming the river Sata-dru (Satluj:- Sata-dru means 'with hundred branches'). The poet who contributed this myth to Mahabharata has actually embedded the 'geological information' about the Western drainage system of India. Due to tectonic activity, river Sarasvati migrated from east to west and then from west to east forming many channels and one of them became Satluj river which joined with Indus (Sindhu). Satluj event today has many branches. Similarly Balarama's wife Rohini is mentioned as spending some time in the abode of Brahma and that time turned out to be 1000 years on Earth! This encodes astronomical information regarding the precession of equinox which takes close to 1000 years to move from one star to another in our sky. Rohini is the name of a star and Brahma-sira is the name of a stellar constallation.</p> <p>Some other verses like the one you mentioned about Bhima having strength of 10000 elephants etc are pure exagerations or the liberty of the poet.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1900654</guid>
				<title>Original story of Mahabharata</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1900654</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 24 Nov 2013 14:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Anand Shankar</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1597315</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Dear Jiith,</p> <p>As we know the original Mahabharata compiled by Vyasa was &quot;Jaya&quot;. Over the years many stories were added in the original book of Vyasa and it took its present form during Gupta period. There are many interpolations in Mahabharata, many myths have been added in this epic. You have done a lot of research on Mahabharata. Why don't you try to find out the original story and write a new book that is free of all these myths and interpolations ?</p> <p>Do you think that the death of all the prominent warriors of Mahabharata have been dramatized by some later authors ? All of them turned into invincible warriors just before their death. I think Shikhandi and Dristidyumna killed Bhishma and Drona respectively in a fair battle and the stories of Bhishma not attacking Shikhandi and Drona's celestial weapons not appearing before his death were added later to cover up their failure. Bhishma and Drona were famed warriors but the impact of the old age on them was evident. They couldn't kill any prominent warrior. What you have to say on this ?</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1748715</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1748715</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 08 Apr 2013 11:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Anand Shankar</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1597315</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I believe that Mahabharata is the ancient History of India preceding the Buddha period. But many myths have been added in it over a period of time. Many mythological stories(story of king Nala etc) were also added in Mahabharata.</p> <p>I think Sauti told the story of Vyasa's Jaya in an exaggerated way using ornamental language. All the prominent warriors now became equal to Indra and all the duels were similar to that of between Indra and Vritra. Particularly the final duels between Arjuna and Karna and Bhima and Duryodhana were exaggerated a lot.</p> <p>It seems many myths have been created in later time to glorify some characters of Mahabharata. Such as Bhishma having the boon of &quot;iksha mrityu&quot;,Yudhishthira going to heaven with his body, Karna having the &quot;celestial armor and ear rings&quot;, Karna getting numerous curses in his life, Ashwattama having narayanastra and Drona having brahmadanda, Bhima having the strength of 10000 elephants etc</p> <p>Even not so great warriors like Shalya became &quot;invincible&quot; just before their end. They have been glorified mostly using the name of krishna, Bhishma etc. We need to ignore these myths and interpolations and try to find out truth hidden behind them. I think that the core story and the 70% of Mahabharata is real and rest are interpolations and exaggerations.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1676067</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1676067</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 11:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jijith Nadumuri</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>407143</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Your reasoning is summarised in the article as approach 1:- &quot;Blind Acceptance: The entire myth is absolutely true.&quot; There is ample information available in the Vedas and Puranas to know that the theme &quot;sun travelling in a chariot&quot; is a poetic imagination. While I appreciate the poet for his/her skill of imagination, I do not subscribe to the view that we need chariots tied to horses to travel in outer space.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1676064</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1676064</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 11:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jijith Nadumuri</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>407143</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Your reasoning is summarised in the article as approach 1:- Blind Acceptance: The entire myth is absolutely true. I suggest you to read the ancient Indic texts and find out sicne when the concepts / names like 'Brahma' and 'Kasyapa' started to mean what it is known in popular Hinduism of today. Almost all of them has their origin in the Puranas and all the Puranas are later to the core of Mahabharata. A large portion of Mahabharata evolved along with the Puranas.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1631683</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1631683</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Aboli Mane</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1499179</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Hey, missed out one point in my previous comment so I'm going to put it here&#8230;(sorry)<br /> You said that Surya, the sun god traveling in a chariot is impossible because Copernicus said that the earth revolves around the sun.<br /> I agree with Copernicus but I (again) have my own take on this matter:<br /> The sun is stationary according to Copernicus. But it can also be assumed that the sun we see today is just an energy or the material power of the actual sun god. Hene it remains stationary.<br /> But the sun god has a personified form and is not just an energy. Hence again it is possible that the sun god may move around in his chariot. Also it cannot be assumed that the sun god lives right where we see the sun. It is possible that he live on another astral plane. Just because we cannot see such astral bodies with our own eyes it does not mean that they do not exist.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1631671</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1631671</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Aboli Mane</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1499179</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I agree with your opinions up to some extent. I feel that Sage Kashyap and his wives were created for the purpose of bringing forth different species. Brahma, who was Kashyap's grandfather gave them the spiritual power to create such species. Of course a woman laying an egg is considered impossible but my reasoning on it is that given the spiritual power they had in those times in addition to being descendants of Brahma, is it not possible for them to shape shift into birds or snakes and give birth accordingly? True the scripture doesn't mention them shape-shifting or something like that but its left for the readers to interpret.<br /> Also not everything that's written down should be taken at face value.</p> <p>As for the part of Aruna I read somewhere that only the top half of his body had developed which gave him wings and enabled him to fly and talk.<br /> Well, I'm eager to know your opinion on this.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1187869</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1187869</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 09:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jijith Nadumuri</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>407143</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>We are not saying that Indian scriptures are useless. On the contrary, we are showing its value usefulness for the whole of humanity. The purpose of this whole web-site is to highlight the value of ancient Indian scriptures. In this article all the different views about the scriptures are given respect, including blind acceptance. Each view point has its merits and demerits.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-1187394</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-1187394</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 17:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Tapan Sinha</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Something which is beyond ur experience or intellectual capability cannot be called a myth.Just bcoz someone is a sanskrit scholar he does not get authority to comment on scriptures . A strong spiritual sadhna ,disciplined &amp; pure lifestyle is needed to understand scriptures &amp; comment on it.U r giving a distorted picture about the stories in puranas, plz rectify it.The word mythology is connoted by British Indologist to show Indian scriptures r useless ,they never said it about Biblical stories</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-927595</guid>
				<title>De Mystification</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-927595</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jijith Nadumuri</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>407143</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Thanks for your appreciation. On the birth of Pandavas and 100 Kauravas:- You can read these articles:-</p> <p><a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-video-mbh:episode9">http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-video-mbh:episode9</a></p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-923984</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-923984</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Srinivas keerthi</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>The information you have been providing is very good, de mystifying wrong notions. I would like to know, the birth of pandavas and 100 kauravs</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-858579</guid>
				<title>Cool infos. :)</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-858579</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 04:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Nadia Atiqa</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I think you have cool infos here. (:</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-840161</guid>
				<title>Re: nagamanikkam</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-840161</link>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 06:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jijith Nadumuri</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>407143</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Hi</p> <p>I have no knowledge of Naga-Manikyam, or where it can be found. I guess you are referring to the jewl mentioned as possessed by the <a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh:nagas">Nagas</a> as per many myths and fables. Naga kings were wealthy. They possessed many jewls and costly metals in their treasury. Their mansions were beautiful and made of costly materials. They wore costly robes and ornaments decked with many precious jewls. These were all later taken away by their conquerers. Probably this myth arose from this fact. Mythology portrayed all former Naga kings as snakes (yea like Cobra) and thus non-humanized them and was not willing to consider them as humans.</p> <p><a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh:aswathama">Aswathama</a> who became the ruler (on behalf of <a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh:kuru">Kuru</a> kings at <a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh:hastinapura">Hastinapura</a>) of the city named <a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh:ahichatra">Ahichatra</a> (formerly a Naga city and later the northern capital of <a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/panchala">Panchala</a> kingdom) obtained a precious jewl from the Nagas (this could be Naga-Manikyam). He made it part of his crown. When <a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/pandavas">Pandavas</a> defeated Aswathama, at the fag end of <a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh:kurukshetra">Kurukshetra</a>-war, they took it from him for their wife <a href="http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/mbh:panchali">Panchali</a>.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-833710</guid>
				<title>nagamanikkam</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-833710</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 12:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>sriram</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>dear sir,</p> <p>can i get details about NAGAMANIKKAM.? (WHICH IS FROM COBRA'S HOODS..)</p> <p>THANX &amp;REGARDS<br /> SRIRAM<br /> CHENNAI</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-802786</guid>
				<title>Re: Great work!</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-802786</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 13:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jijith Nadumuri</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>407143</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Thanks Manish</p> <p>As I explained in this article, explanation based on alien-theories also is a valid view-point to look at some of the strange narrations found in the Indian epics and most of the Puranas of India. However I tend to incline towards an explanation that does not depend on aliens. I will wait for more evidences about alien intervention especially in ancient India, in order to shift my focus more on a view-point or theory based on alien interventions.</p> <p>Probably I will discuss this in another article.</p> <p>Thanks for your links.</p> 
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				<guid>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288#post-797388</guid>
				<title>Great work!</title>
				<link>http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/forum/t-238288/de-mystifying-myths#post-797388</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 31 May 2010 10:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>manish</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Hi</p> <p>you have skillfully illustrated the different approaches in analyzing the myths and explaining them. I am certainly not in favor of the blind acceptance or blind rejection. I am more inclined to an alien explanation though. Why can't the Devas, Gandharvas, Garuda be aliens? I think aliens interacted with ancient civilizations in India, Egypt, Atlantis etc.</p> <p>Check out these link:-<br /> <a href="http://www.world-famous.com/DavidHamelStuff/Hamel-Part4-Shop/index.htm">http://www.world-famous.com/DavidHamelStuff/Hamel-Part4-Shop/index.htm</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.skepdic.com/atlantis.html">http://www.skepdic.com/atlantis.html</a></p> 
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